Colts vs. Bears...

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by flpriest
I guess my question to you would be the same then. How can the colts have the #1 QB in the NFL the last 3 to 4 years (based on stats) and just now be able to now make it (some how) to the dance?

and by the way, I understand the differences in pro rankings and colege rankings. I was simply making a comparison. It seems that some how you are the onle one entitled to an opinion...

Good luck next week colts fan. ***)
I'm actually a Saints fan pulling for manning since he is from my home town New Orleans.
You simply posted your opinion that defense wins championships and I pointed out the Ravens had the best defense in the league this year yet could not get past their first game in the playoffs.
You are now talking individual stats vs team stats. The Colts were the #3 offense this year ...Saints #1 and Philly #2.
The Chargers had the best player in football this year and still lost the first game in the playoffs
You are entiltled to your opinion as we all are. I simply was attemting to engage in debate over your pont that defense wins championships. This year..it is out the window. Bears have the #5 ranked defense in the nfl.
it remains to be seen if the better defense will beat the better offense. But, the best defense was one and done. ...and so was the best player.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by mja8761
first of all we are 15-2. second do you really think the colts defense could stop thomas and benson.
You're 15-3 great season though

 

[flpriest]

I'm actually a Saints fan pulling for manning since he is from my home town New Orleans.
You are now talking individual stats vs team stats. The Colts were the #3 offense this year ...Saints #1 and Philly #2.
You are right... I agree. individual stats usually have nothing to do with team stats as a whole, from one bad week to maybe one good week. but it always seems that the colts are held up as either a great team or a medeochor (sp?) team dependant on mannings preformance. may i remind you that team stats are also made up from indivdual stats, and if individuals don't happen to step up from one week to another, team stats go in the pooper. Cases in point as you mentioned: Eagles, and Saints. Now that we want to talk stats instead of just good ol' opinion and team rivalry, it really doesn't make this thread quite as fun does it? :hilarious
Opinoin: Super Bowl XLI final, Bears 14 Colts 9
Stats: Super Bowl XLI Bears 0 Colts 0, as of this moment
Statistics: Bears in Super Bowl 2x's, Colts as Idianapolis 0
Opinion: Bears "bad" fans, Colts good fans? Who cares
like i said before, Good luck colts fan.

 

[ruaround]

flpriest... its the franchise that goes to the super bowl not the city... so Colts 3 Bears 2... but that point is moot because the Bears made their first one 22 years ago and the Colst 35ish... so these two particular teams are new to the dance, baring a few free agents that have gone to the Bowl with a recent team...

 

[flpriest]

Originally Posted by ruaround
flpriest... its the franchise that goes to the super bowl not the city... so Colts 3 Bears 2... but that point is moot because the Bears made their first one 22 years ago and the Colst 35ish... so these two particular teams are new to the dance, baring a few free agents that have gone to the Bowl with a recent team...
I beg to differ, when the franchise leaves a city, it's a new franchise, so chicago 2 Indianapolis 0
But if we were to use the same analogy as you use the when the ravens go to the superbowl, they carry the record of the browns? Also, do you believe that seings how the browns were already an established franchise the new browns are held to that legacy?
Regardless, in keeping with this post:
Bears over Baltimore colts

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by flpriest
I beg to differ, when the franchise leaves a city, it's a new franchise, so chicago 2 Indianapolis 0
But if we were to use the same analogy as you use the when the ravens go to the superbowl, they carry the record of the browns? Also, do you believe that seings how the browns were already an established franchise the new browns are held to that legacy?
Regardless, in keeping with this post:
Bears over Baltimore colts

youre wrong on both accounts... the franchicse moves... look it up... the Colts still have all the stats from their conception... and as far as the Ravens, the city of Cleveland made a deal with the NFL knowing they were getting a new team in 3 years after the Browns left... the Ravens stats start in 1996... this was done at the request of the city of cleveland, and the league and team owner okayed that the Browns name and history stayed in Cleveland...
so once again.. the Colts will have been in 3 Super Bowls after the 4th...

 

[flpriest]

youre wrong on both accounts... the franchicse moves... look it up... the Colts still have all the stats from their conception... and as far as the Ravens, the city of Cleveland made a deal with the NFL knowing they were getting a new team in 3 years after the Browns left... the Ravens stats start in 1996... this was done at the request of the city of cleveland, and the league and team owner okayed that the Browns name and history stayed in Cleveland...
so once again.. the Colts will have been in 3 Super Bowls after the 4th..QUOTE]
ok runaound... you are the statistic gooroo...

That being said, this is still an OPINION poll....

Bears 14 Baltimore Colts 9
And there's really no statistcs to back it until 2-4-07... right?

 

[ruaround]

hmmm... okay... but the how can the Bears beat the Baltimore Colts... the Colts franchise is now in Indianapolis and has been since '83 or '84... the Ravens now play in Baltimore and they were beat 2 weeks ago... so Baltimore is not in the Super Bowl...

 

[flpriest]

Originally Posted by ruaround
the Colts still have all the stats from their conception...
so once again.. the Colts will have been in 3 Super Bowls after the 4th...
runaround, I don't quote the statistics, i just repeat what a statatician's put out for me... TY for you for enlightening me :thinking:
CHICAGO Bears 14, Baltimore/Inianapolis colts 9
***)
Circles are fun...

 

[ruaround]

lmao... couldnt hav said that better... except for your score prediction and the part where you call the Colts Baltimore/Indianapolis... its is now just the Indianapolis Colts...

 

[tx reef]

What do you expect from a mad Patriots fan?
Face it, the Pats lost and the Colts are going to the Superbowl for the 3rd time.

 

[flpriest]

Originally Posted by ruaround
lmao... couldnt hav said that better... except for your score prediction and the part where you call the Colts Baltimore/Indianapolis... its is now just the Indianapolis Colts...
Well runaround, if you just want them to claim all of the statistics of Baltimore and Indianapolis then they should be called the Indy/Baltimore colts... but if we are talking about a brand new idea.. then the Indianapolis colts.. How many ways do u want it? lol
Ind/Balt. colts in SB 3, i mean if u want to use stats from the day
ind colts 0, or if u'r talkin in today's terms
See, me being a Patriots fan and all, this is exactly what I love about colts and jets fans... or anyone who tries to say "gees the colts deserve this" They all deserve it... who wants it more... this year not the ravens, eagles, saints, chargers, patriots... etc.
I just so happen to belive that the Bears want it more than the rest of them, the colts have "statistaclly " proven the team as a whole can't do it...

 

[flpriest]

Originally Posted by TX Reef
What do you expect from a mad Patriots fan?
Face it, the Pats lost and the Colts are going to the Superbowl for the 3rd time.
What ever Tex reef. I know your pain.... I was a Patriots fan since birth... pre 1970's. I. as you, appearently being the HUGE colts fan that you are know how it is to lose!!

I can't help that as of the last 8 years the Pats have found a way to win.... ***)
And I hopre to go on the record as saying that I'm glad to see the bears in the SB... but I would f also been just as happy seeing the Saint's in there.. That's just the way it is... Any Given Sunday...

 

[ruaround]

perhaps you should look up what a franchise is... its all good though... if you want to call them the Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts thats fine... :hilarious

 

[flpriest]

Originally Posted by ruaround
perhaps you should look up what a franchise is... its all good though... if you want to call them the Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts thats fine... :hilarious
Exactly... U want to claim the stats from baltimore, but want to be independant from it... I said chicago in sb-2 indi-0 Now u want to claim the stats fron balt but don;t claim the era???

All I said was that Chicago has been there 2x +... IDK
Indianapolis-0
U argued that. now the point u made in the first place u are not claiming???
I'm done.... Thanks for the highly intulectual conversation...

 

[ruaround]

wow... you have COMPLETELY missed the point... the Colts are a franchise... NOT THE CITY!!! the Colst now play in Indianapolis... the Colts hold all stats regardless where they play... look at the Rams and Cardinals... the Rams hold all stats from LA... the Cardinals hold all of their stats from St Louis... the Cleveland situation is very unique... this was already debated in another thread too... and one point was do Unitas' records go to NFL purgatory because the Colts are no longer in Baltimore...???

 

[anubisxero]

This arguement is ridiculous. Either way guys someone's gonna win, someones gonna lose and to put it quite frankly whether or not it's the old team or whether or not the old records carry, it wont matter when these two teams go head-up. Just wait for it and watch a good game.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by flpriest
I just so happen to belive that the Bears want it more than the rest of them, the colts have "statistaclly " proven the team as a whole can't do it...
What statistic for this year points to the Colts can't do it? Under the current regime, the Bears last year did not look to good in the playoffs. Under the Dungy regime neither has the Colts. Until such time THIS Bears team wins a Super Bowl under the current regime, there is NO statistic pointing to them doing it....ZERO. Same holds true for Indy. Actually, the Colts have come form a lower seed to make it to the show. THis statistic or fact tells me their road to the SB was harder...plus thay had to go on the road and beat the #1 defense. Bears played both games at home. Plus, Bears had a much easier schedule overall this year...but you can only play the teams on the schedule.
Many beleive Manning/Dungy deserve it because of the overall character. When you have players on a team like Tank Johnson..always in trouble....folks sitting on the fence sometimes will end up pulling for those they view as having good character. Sometimes, one or two bad apples turn folks the other direction. To others it does not matter.

 

[scubadoo]

[QUOTE=ruaround. and one point was do Unitas' records go to NFL purgatory because the Colts are no longer in Baltimore...???
Unitas died a BITTER man. I doubt he cares where his records showed up even when he was alive after he retired. After retiring, he had trouble walking due to knee injuries and got ZERO on disability from the pension. I saw an interesting story by Bryant Gumble this month on Real Sports HBO. It is shameful what the players union and the nfl is doing to the retired veterans. They interviewed Conrad Dobler (there was a nice guy on the field) and Johnny Cooks. Dobler could barely walk and Cooks could barely get out of a chair due to his back. Cooks is 48 years old but looked like he was 68.
Also, Upshaw bascially said he wroks for the current players and really does not care about the retired players. I guess if he was not making millions as head of the union he may feel differently. I'm not certain but beleive his salry is around 3 million.
Kudos for Carson for calling out the union and the nfl at his induction this summer . Nice to see Ditka also pushing the cause forward.
I beleive they said Unitas never went back to Canton after he was inducted.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by ruaround
wow... you have COMPLETELY missed the point... the Colts are a franchise... NOT THE CITY!!! the Colst now play in Indianapolis... the Colts hold all stats regardless where they play... look at the Rams and Cardinals... the Rams hold all stats from LA... the Cardinals hold all of their stats from St Louis... the Cleveland situation is very unique... this was already debated in another thread too... and one point was do Unitas' records go to NFL purgatory because the Colts are no longer in Baltimore...???
You are correct regarding how stats appear. The FRANCHISE called the colts have made it to the SB and won. It does not matter which city they played for. However, if one claims the Colts have never been to the SB....from a franchise standpoint this would be incorrect. With the exception of the Ravens/Browns situation as stated eralier, this is how the nfl handles stats. They are attributed to the franchise....regardless of current or past location
Also, unless I am mistaken I thought the bears have only been to one SB before this one? They did win championships before the super bowl....not sure how many though. Colts have also won championships before the Super Bowl was named.
.