deejeff442
Active Member
yea i didnt want to bring up the "super ich" issue again.but the stuf i had was brutal.
Coral Beauty - has ICH!!!!!!
- Thread starter al&burke
- Start date
al&burke
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/20#post_3349470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/20#post_3349382
I just want to run this by everyone again.
1) Setting up 40 for HT
2) Moving all my fish into HT for treatment and holding - 6 to 8 weeks
3) No fish in DT for 6 to 8 weeks - inverts are OK - nothing new
4) re-aquascape - move everything to tokes - 2 to 3 days - Drill tank - overflow - new sump/fuge
5) Put all live rock back in DT - new aquascape.
6) After 8 weeks - fish back into DT
7) Revamp 40 breeder for FOWLR or frag tank
8) 25 or 35 gallon for permanent QT - for fish and corals
The reason I want to rescape my tank is that I feel it does not have enought height and larger caves. I want to drill and secure with acrylic rods - epoxy everything together.
Sounds like a great plan - an earlier post of yours asked about Qtine on corals and YES it is a must on reef tank. The baserock or frag holder of a new coral can house a fishbourne infection/parasite just as easy as the water it came with - or a new fish... I found it very difficult when I first got into reeftanks (from FOWLR) to maintain a 30 gal coral Q tank, cause it's gotta be of just as high quality water & light as the main. But it is a must cause there are other nightmares that can arrive on corals (aiptasia) or anything that came from the wild or some other system that can bring disaster to the fish or corals. I found it was best to leave a small coral Q tank up & running all the time until I was sure I was done adding corals to the mains, so it was very well established with all microscopic cuc and stable parameters. It ran for 1.5 years...And obviously a seperate Q tank for fish.....and a standby tank for emergencies........and some more tanks for seperating anyone who throws a fit while in Q.......I think I've got about 6 tanks from 20 - 75 gallon for Qtine or emergency use that Ive collected over the years, with more smaller tanks in the 6-10 gal range> > at least they are cheap compared to the mains!
Other than that, you've got a good handle on it, done freeze up there! keep us posted
Thanks tangs rule. I never thought of that separate for corals and fish, I guess it makes a lot of sense.
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/20#post_3349470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/20#post_3349382
I just want to run this by everyone again.
1) Setting up 40 for HT
2) Moving all my fish into HT for treatment and holding - 6 to 8 weeks
3) No fish in DT for 6 to 8 weeks - inverts are OK - nothing new
4) re-aquascape - move everything to tokes - 2 to 3 days - Drill tank - overflow - new sump/fuge
5) Put all live rock back in DT - new aquascape.
6) After 8 weeks - fish back into DT
7) Revamp 40 breeder for FOWLR or frag tank
8) 25 or 35 gallon for permanent QT - for fish and corals
The reason I want to rescape my tank is that I feel it does not have enought height and larger caves. I want to drill and secure with acrylic rods - epoxy everything together.
Sounds like a great plan - an earlier post of yours asked about Qtine on corals and YES it is a must on reef tank. The baserock or frag holder of a new coral can house a fishbourne infection/parasite just as easy as the water it came with - or a new fish... I found it very difficult when I first got into reeftanks (from FOWLR) to maintain a 30 gal coral Q tank, cause it's gotta be of just as high quality water & light as the main. But it is a must cause there are other nightmares that can arrive on corals (aiptasia) or anything that came from the wild or some other system that can bring disaster to the fish or corals. I found it was best to leave a small coral Q tank up & running all the time until I was sure I was done adding corals to the mains, so it was very well established with all microscopic cuc and stable parameters. It ran for 1.5 years...And obviously a seperate Q tank for fish.....and a standby tank for emergencies........and some more tanks for seperating anyone who throws a fit while in Q.......I think I've got about 6 tanks from 20 - 75 gallon for Qtine or emergency use that Ive collected over the years, with more smaller tanks in the 6-10 gal range> > at least they are cheap compared to the mains!
Other than that, you've got a good handle on it, done freeze up there! keep us posted
Thanks tangs rule. I never thought of that separate for corals and fish, I guess it makes a lot of sense.
al&burke
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/20#post_3349484
Al, if you are leaning to copper make sure you get a copper test kit. Now will you be using ionic copper or chelated copper? Once you know which one, make sure to get the correct test kit. You will have to test the water daily to ensure the correct, therapeutic levels are maintained.
And sorry to hear that you must fight the ich battle.
Thanks Gemmy I bought the seachem cupramine variety - I will have to research it.
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/20#post_3349484
Al, if you are leaning to copper make sure you get a copper test kit. Now will you be using ionic copper or chelated copper? Once you know which one, make sure to get the correct test kit. You will have to test the water daily to ensure the correct, therapeutic levels are maintained.
And sorry to hear that you must fight the ich battle.
Thanks Gemmy I bought the seachem cupramine variety - I will have to research it.
tangs rule
Active Member
Cupramine is Ionic copper solution and you will need a test kit for Ionic - not chleated (buffered) copper.
al&burke
Active Member
The seachen test measures ionic copper. Also what should I run for a filter on this 40 gallon HT. I have two spare Aquaclear 50 HOB filters - just some floss, sponge perhaps, They are supposed to do 200 gph so that would be 10X turnover per hour. I am going to build a sump for this tank, it is already drilled out, figured I would run the Aquaclear 50 until it is up and running, I will just plug the drilled tank for now.Thanks again
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349810
The seachen test measures ionic copper. Also what should I run for a filter on this 40 gallon HT. I have two spare Aquaclear 50 HOB filters - just some floss, sponge perhaps, They are supposed to do 200 gph so that would be 10X turnover per hour. I am going to build a sump for this tank, it is already drilled out, figured I would run the Aquaclear 50 until it is up and running, I will just plug the drilled tank for now.Thanks again
Al, I don't think you want anything that will absorb your medicines, or you might have to adjust the medicine to compensate, but I'm not sure. The sponge for bacteria makes sense. I'm sure the HOB is a good idea. PM Beth and ask about the floss.
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349810
The seachen test measures ionic copper. Also what should I run for a filter on this 40 gallon HT. I have two spare Aquaclear 50 HOB filters - just some floss, sponge perhaps, They are supposed to do 200 gph so that would be 10X turnover per hour. I am going to build a sump for this tank, it is already drilled out, figured I would run the Aquaclear 50 until it is up and running, I will just plug the drilled tank for now.Thanks again
Al, I don't think you want anything that will absorb your medicines, or you might have to adjust the medicine to compensate, but I'm not sure. The sponge for bacteria makes sense. I'm sure the HOB is a good idea. PM Beth and ask about the floss.
al&burke
Active Member
Update - well today it looks like all the white spots are gone. I questioned myself if the CB even had ich or was it bubbles - well i netted him and I think the bubbles would have came off. Is it possible that the treatment worked so quickly - I guess I should be thankful - I really like this fish, like we go way back you know - LOL
I built the stand today for the 40 gallon HT - I will post pictures a little later - my little office is slowing becoming a fish room, oh well
I built the stand today for the 40 gallon HT - I will post pictures a little later - my little office is slowing becoming a fish room, oh well
meowzer
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349973
You're right - but a good sign there are no spots right.
For the fish....yes
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349973
You're right - but a good sign there are no spots right.
For the fish....yes
deejeff442
Active Member
the ich lifecycle for it beeing seen on the fish is around 5-7 days .then it drops off then multiplies.this is when the ich is in the sand and rock and when the treatment works.if there are any other fish in the tank i would get them out before the ich becomes water bourne looking for a host.one ich can multiply 100 times.so the next wave will be alot worse.
tangs rule
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349973
You're right - but a good sign there are no spots right.
Regardless - I'd keep them all in Qtine/treatment for 6 weeks so if it was Ich - it'll likely be gone from the DT & fish by then.....And i'd stick to your orig plan of DT new aquascape and allow this "fallow time" in your DT to stabilize it and get everything 100% after major breakdown & mods.... Also, this fallow time for the DT is a good time to add more snails/shrimp/stars/ misc. cuc members, (if needed) cause by the time any new fishbourne illness that'd come with them, would also likely be gone too by the time the fish are ready to go back into main - which sounded to many like had a parasite issue anyway........ I pulled all my fish from a 100 DT 5 days ago, cause I bought $250 worth of new cuc thingys, and by late Feb, we both should be able to put the fish back into main tanks. Once my fish are back into my 100, and have NO parasite issues for a month, the huge new cuc gang i bought will be removed from that tank and by thirds, spread around to the other mains I have...I only add new "things" in mass quantity every 2-4 years, cause it's so dangerous to add things regulary without really really strict Qtine proceedures....I like to do mass additions vs more frequent smaller ones...........I loose no fish thataway...
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349973
You're right - but a good sign there are no spots right.
Regardless - I'd keep them all in Qtine/treatment for 6 weeks so if it was Ich - it'll likely be gone from the DT & fish by then.....And i'd stick to your orig plan of DT new aquascape and allow this "fallow time" in your DT to stabilize it and get everything 100% after major breakdown & mods.... Also, this fallow time for the DT is a good time to add more snails/shrimp/stars/ misc. cuc members, (if needed) cause by the time any new fishbourne illness that'd come with them, would also likely be gone too by the time the fish are ready to go back into main - which sounded to many like had a parasite issue anyway........ I pulled all my fish from a 100 DT 5 days ago, cause I bought $250 worth of new cuc thingys, and by late Feb, we both should be able to put the fish back into main tanks. Once my fish are back into my 100, and have NO parasite issues for a month, the huge new cuc gang i bought will be removed from that tank and by thirds, spread around to the other mains I have...I only add new "things" in mass quantity every 2-4 years, cause it's so dangerous to add things regulary without really really strict Qtine proceedures....I like to do mass additions vs more frequent smaller ones...........I loose no fish thataway...
al&burke
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349988
the ich lifecycle for it beeing seen on the fish is around 5-7 days .then it drops off then multiplies.this is when the ich is in the sand and rock and when the treatment works.if there are any other fish in the tank i would get them out before the ich becomes water bourne looking for a host.one ich can multiply 100 times.so the next wave will be alot worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349973
You're right - but a good sign there are no spots right.
Regardless - I'd keep them all in Qtine/treatment for 6 weeks so if it was Ich - it'll likely be gone from the DT & fish by then.....And i'd stick to your orig plan of DT new aquascape and allow this "fallow time" in your DT to stabilize it and get everything 100% after major breakdown & mods.... Also, this fallow time for the DT is a good time to add more snails/shrimp/stars/ misc. cuc members, (if needed) cause by the time any new fishbourne illness that'd come with them, would also likely be gone too by the time the fish are ready to go back into main - which sounded to many like had a parasite issue anyway........ I pulled all my fish from a 100 DT 5 days ago, cause I bought $250 worth of new cuc thingys, and by late Feb, we both should be able to put the fish back into main tanks. Once my fish are back into my 100, and have NO parasite issues for a month, the huge new cuc gang i bought will be removed from that tank and by thirds, spread around to the other mains I have...I only add new "things" in mass quantity every 2-4 years, cause it's so dangerous to add things regulary without really really strict Qtine proceedures....I like to do mass additions vs more frequent smaller ones...........I loose no fish thataway...
Thanks, I am working on getting my 40 breeder up and running I built the stand today - hopefully by tomorrow night i will have all the fish in the HT. Thanks for your replies I am learning alot.
I am going to run two Aquaclear 50 HOB filters for the HT until I build the sump - what should I put in those filters floss and sponge only?
This 40 gallon HT is going to become a dwarf liontank - in about 6 months once everything is gone and cleaned out.
Originally Posted by deejeff442 http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349988
the ich lifecycle for it beeing seen on the fish is around 5-7 days .then it drops off then multiplies.this is when the ich is in the sand and rock and when the treatment works.if there are any other fish in the tank i would get them out before the ich becomes water bourne looking for a host.one ich can multiply 100 times.so the next wave will be alot worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/383159/coral-beauty-has-ich/40#post_3349973
You're right - but a good sign there are no spots right.
Regardless - I'd keep them all in Qtine/treatment for 6 weeks so if it was Ich - it'll likely be gone from the DT & fish by then.....And i'd stick to your orig plan of DT new aquascape and allow this "fallow time" in your DT to stabilize it and get everything 100% after major breakdown & mods.... Also, this fallow time for the DT is a good time to add more snails/shrimp/stars/ misc. cuc members, (if needed) cause by the time any new fishbourne illness that'd come with them, would also likely be gone too by the time the fish are ready to go back into main - which sounded to many like had a parasite issue anyway........ I pulled all my fish from a 100 DT 5 days ago, cause I bought $250 worth of new cuc thingys, and by late Feb, we both should be able to put the fish back into main tanks. Once my fish are back into my 100, and have NO parasite issues for a month, the huge new cuc gang i bought will be removed from that tank and by thirds, spread around to the other mains I have...I only add new "things" in mass quantity every 2-4 years, cause it's so dangerous to add things regulary without really really strict Qtine proceedures....I like to do mass additions vs more frequent smaller ones...........I loose no fish thataway...
Thanks, I am working on getting my 40 breeder up and running I built the stand today - hopefully by tomorrow night i will have all the fish in the HT. Thanks for your replies I am learning alot.
I am going to run two Aquaclear 50 HOB filters for the HT until I build the sump - what should I put in those filters floss and sponge only?
This 40 gallon HT is going to become a dwarf liontank - in about 6 months once everything is gone and cleaned out.
tangs rule
Active Member
al&burke
Yes use floss & sponge only......u can grab a couple square inches from a main floss filter (if used) that is already saturated with nitrifying bacters to supplement cycle in Qtine, but only do this once, and at the beginning of Qtine....Primarily - it's partial waterchanges every 2-3 days to keep nitrates/nitrites/ammonia in check. ..Qtine tanks can/will be cloudy and thats OK, as long as nitrates/nitrites/ammonia do not reach stress levels.....Test these levels daily .....NO carbon - and do not use ANY sand/liverock/aragonite/reef gravel in hospital tank (Qtine copper treatment). All the standard reef type substrates/rock WILL absorb copper meds, and make stable ppm treatments difficult, as these things can absorb copper meds and reduce the treatment value in HT,,,then they can leach the absorbed copper back later if any of these items go back into any main system and wipe out inverts.....A Qtine copper treated tank serves only one purpose - kill parasites without killing the fish, until fish are healthy enough to remain in that Qtank without copper, and by that time, the main has been fallow long enough that no parasites remain....
The complete life cycle (including dormant stages) of marine Ich is 4 weeks in a contaminated main tank with no fish...and thats the minimal time the main should be fallow (no fish). With copper treatments running at least 3-4 weeks in Qtine, and if no signs of Ich remain, I usually totally breakdown and very dutifly clean out my Qtine tank, flushing everything with hot water, and re-insert the fish for 2 more weeks with 100% new water & filters & no copper, just to be sure they are in a parasite free state in Qtine...only then do I put them back into a main, and that's now 6 weeks from outbreak in the main........If steps are rushed, you could have to repeat a Qtine cycle and now thats 2-3+ months, and most fish cant take copper meds that long......it's best to clear the problem on the first try with fish in treated Qtine 4 weeks, then 2 weeks no meds, but still in Qtank - then back into main after 6 weeks fallow....
Only thing to do then is monitor fish for signs of re-infection in main, and never ever put anything from aonther system, including live foods - in your tanks....
my $0.02
Yes use floss & sponge only......u can grab a couple square inches from a main floss filter (if used) that is already saturated with nitrifying bacters to supplement cycle in Qtine, but only do this once, and at the beginning of Qtine....Primarily - it's partial waterchanges every 2-3 days to keep nitrates/nitrites/ammonia in check. ..Qtine tanks can/will be cloudy and thats OK, as long as nitrates/nitrites/ammonia do not reach stress levels.....Test these levels daily .....NO carbon - and do not use ANY sand/liverock/aragonite/reef gravel in hospital tank (Qtine copper treatment). All the standard reef type substrates/rock WILL absorb copper meds, and make stable ppm treatments difficult, as these things can absorb copper meds and reduce the treatment value in HT,,,then they can leach the absorbed copper back later if any of these items go back into any main system and wipe out inverts.....A Qtine copper treated tank serves only one purpose - kill parasites without killing the fish, until fish are healthy enough to remain in that Qtank without copper, and by that time, the main has been fallow long enough that no parasites remain....
The complete life cycle (including dormant stages) of marine Ich is 4 weeks in a contaminated main tank with no fish...and thats the minimal time the main should be fallow (no fish). With copper treatments running at least 3-4 weeks in Qtine, and if no signs of Ich remain, I usually totally breakdown and very dutifly clean out my Qtine tank, flushing everything with hot water, and re-insert the fish for 2 more weeks with 100% new water & filters & no copper, just to be sure they are in a parasite free state in Qtine...only then do I put them back into a main, and that's now 6 weeks from outbreak in the main........If steps are rushed, you could have to repeat a Qtine cycle and now thats 2-3+ months, and most fish cant take copper meds that long......it's best to clear the problem on the first try with fish in treated Qtine 4 weeks, then 2 weeks no meds, but still in Qtank - then back into main after 6 weeks fallow....
Only thing to do then is monitor fish for signs of re-infection in main, and never ever put anything from aonther system, including live foods - in your tanks....
my $0.02
