Do you believe in evolution?

[darknes]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Please re-read my post.
Diversity of opinions is what I am PROMOTING.
I have no issues with people voicing their opinions, in fact, that is what I am encouraging. What is DISCOURAGING is that people who may not agree to one particular belief - namely strict Creationism - are put down or called "anti-Gods" for having a different belief. THAT is exactly the problem I have an issue with, so we are stating EXACTLY the same thing.
And in fact this thread is not as open a discussion as others are. That is quite unfortunate.
That is why I originally intended to keep religion out of the discussion. I just wanted to discuss evidence on evolution.
It's very frustrating to try an argue with fundamentalist Christians, as they always answer every argument with Bible quotes. While I do believe the Bible is full of truth, I don't believe everything can be taken literally in English. Much meaning is lost in translation, and it's full of symbolism.
I'm a Catholic, and was taught both creation and evolution in school. The Church does not take any specific stance. This is how I view it: "The Bible sums all of creation into a few paragraphs. It isn't important to our faith on how we came to be here, rather it's why we are here and where our future lies."
This discussion has veered way off the intended track. I was mostly interested in the poll, and not the arguments.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
I think its listed as "I have a standing offer of $250,000 to anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution". I have seen him speak in person on a few occasions and I liked a lot of what he had to say. Like you said, and from his offer, I would probably think it would take something along the lines of an ape-man coming out of your hat in order to satisfy the claim of "Empirical Evidence". Honestly though, to prove any theory it would take something along those lines to sway even the scientific community would it not? I'm not talking about proving evolution obviously since it is essentially taught in many textbooks as a "fact" and the scientific community is like a horse with blinders when it comes to this topic.
I dont buy into the idea that God's creation was a code name of sorts for making the evolutionary process come to be. Everyone has their own opinions on the matter (as seen in this thread) and they are very diverse. I just think that Kent Hovind has a very intersting theory himself, and best satisfies my thought process - more so than anything else that I have heard.
Again, my point is that HE decides what he will accept as proof, just like we all do. The issue I have this claim of his is that is pointless. Anyone can make this claim and back it up with any amount of money but in the end the claim does not make his stand any more correct or incorrect.

 

[deltablack22]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
Sorry ophuria...this bothers me...When you said, "What God they choose to follow." The G should be lower cased...unless you're talkin about the real God (the Jehovah Christian God).

He's got a point...

In the same light (referring to your earlier post Ophuria) I dont think that any TRUE bible believing Christian would pass judgment on you based on your beliefs no matter what they are. Growing up in a church, I was always taught not to judge people - this is not your place and is reserved for God. Additionally, there are many Christians that have differing creation beliefs. I dont know them all off the top of my head but they include such things as the GAP theory... I was taught that the Bible was meant to be taken literally, but more importantly that Christ died for our sins. If evolution is where you differ - I think your in the same boat as everyone else...

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Darknes
. . . It isn't important to our faith on how we came to be here, rather it's why we are here and where our future lies."
I completely agree with you here.

 

[deltablack22]

We have had, on this board, extraordinary exchanges on topics. We have had people who get the big because they discuss issues in the spirit of openness and communication. They are people who may feel VERY strongly in their beliefs but they seek counterpoints because the hope to understand different ideas and not demean them. They SEEK the discussion and understanding...they do not enter the discussion with the intent to talk down everyone with a different idea.
QUOTE]
I think this is a great approach and I try to live by it myself. Participation in a forum with a touchy subject such as this is not realistically going to change someones views, but it is a great way to gain a better understanding of the world in which we live.

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
No, you didn't insult my god, you insulted my God. I will ask you AGAIN, Please do not insult my beliefs by claiming that my God cannot be called God.
Well SORRRRRRYYYYY. Geeez...Don't get mad at me for saying I was sorry for insulting your god.
I'm not insulting your beliefs because I don't know what you believe in!!!
*starts to pray*

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
Well SORRRRRRYYYYY. Geeez...Don't get mad at me for saying I was sorry for insulting your god.
I'm not insulting your beliefs because I don't know what you believe in!!!
*starts to pray*
I am not mad at you, I am not getting mad at you, I am merely pointing out that you are being rude. I would hope that is not your intention but it is starting to seem like that since I have told you that it is insulting to claim that my God is unworthy of being called God, yet you continue to do so.

 

[eaglephot]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
Well SORRRRRRYYYYY. Geeez...Don't get mad at me for saying I was sorry for insulting your god.
I'm not insulting your beliefs because I don't know what you believe in!!!
*starts to pray*
You made no appology. You are the one who is mad. Praying isn't going to help. I can't believe that God is happy with you right now for the ways you have portrayed him.

 

[deltablack22]

And here starts the crusades of the 21st Century... Let the games begin! I want on the red team!

 

[eaglephot]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I am not mad at you, I am not getting mad at you, I am merely pointing out that you are being rude. I would hope that is not your intention but it is starting to seem like that since I have told you that it is insulting to claim that my God is unworthy of being called God, yet you continue to do so.
What are your beliefs, Jerthunter? Who is God to you?

 

[geridoc]

I think its listed as "I have a standing offer of $250,000 to anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution".
I assume this refers to Kent Hovind - if so, don't expect to see a payoff any time in the next 10 years, because that's how long he will be in a Federal Penitentiary for fraud and income tax evasion.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Eaglephot
What are your beliefs, Jerthunter? Who is God to you?
While normally I would love the opportunity to share my beliefs about God, I do not think this is the correct place for that discussion.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
I assume this refers to Kent Hovind - if so, don't expect to see a payoff any time in the next 10 years, because that's how long he will be in a Federal Penitentiary for fraud and income tax evasion.
Really? That is interesting, when did that happen? I ask because I believe he was a speaker at my church back in the 90's but I am not sure of the name...
*edit* Nevermind I found the article. And now I can confirm that he was a speaker I saw several years ago....

 

[eaglephot]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
While normally I would love the opportunity to share my beliefs about God, I do not think this is the correct place for that discussion.
How about your religion?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Eaglephot
How about your religion?
Unfortunately I do not believe this is the correct place to discuss it either.

 

[eaglephot]

Understandable!

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Really? That is interesting, when did that happen? I ask because I believe he was a speaker at my church back in the 90's but I am not sure of the name...
*edit* Nevermind I found the article. And now I can confirm that he was a speaker I saw several years ago....
Hovind was sentenced on January 19, 2007 to ten years in prison and ordered to pay the federal government restitution of over $600,000. After his prison term finishes, he will have to serve another three years of probation.(Wikipedia)

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I'm sure there are ways of explaining it. The easiest is to say God is God so if he wanted to created plants in the dark he could.
well in my bible it says in the beggining God created the heavens and the earth . then day 1 light
day 2 sky and water
day 3 land and seas(waters gathered) vegitation
day 4 sun and moon ,stars( to govern the day and night
and to mark seasons, days and years)
day 5 fish and birds
day 6 land animals and adam

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
Hovind was sentenced on January 19, 2007 to ten years in prison and ordered to pay the federal government restitution of over $600,000. After his prison term finishes, he will have to serve another three years of probation.(Wikipedia)
Well atleast we now know that he HAD the money to back his claim...

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by DeltaBlack22
He's got a point...

In the same light (referring to your earlier post Ophuria) I dont think that any TRUE bible believing Christian would pass judgment on you based on your beliefs no matter what they are. Growing up in a church, I was always taught not to judge people - this is not your place and is reserved for God. Additionally, there are many Christians that have differing creation beliefs. I dont know them all off the top of my head but they include such things as the GAP theory... I was taught that the Bible was meant to be taken literally, but more importantly that Christ died for our sins. If evolution is where you differ - I think your in the same boat as everyone else...

An aside...I take the sorts of comments in this/similar threads - in terms of judgment of my relationship with God based on my belief in evolution - very personally. I have not been treated well when people have learned that I study evolution, and I have had to be very very careful in every "admitting" that I am an evolutionary biologist because of it. So there ARE many out there who believe or imply their "superiority" in their beliefs, as we approached a bit earlier on this thread.
I do believe that once we reach the point of just quoting different scriptures, that there is not much discussion going on. I hope we don't get back into that pattern, because it isolates people (though I enjoyed the other perspectives that Jerthunter tried to bring in