Do you believe in evolution?

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Or Man was created by GOD.
This thread will go on for along time because there is no proof for either. You either believe one and dismiss the other or......lol I'm surprised Aliens haven't got into this discussion yet
Proof, maybe not, but there is plenty of evidence. The fossil record isn't perfect but many fossils have been found that support the idea that animal groups change over time. If we can look back in the fossil record and see a progression of morphilogical changes from one species to another then that would seem to support the theory of evolution.
*edit*
Oh, I thought I should add again that belief in one does on prevent a belief in the other. If there is an all powerful being then nothing would be outside her/his/its power so she/he/it could have created mankind in any fashion desired.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Oh, I thought I should add again that belief in one does on prevent a belief in the other. If there is an all powerful being then nothing would be outside her/his/its power so she/he/it could have created mankind in any fashion desired.
i guess I would have to agree with that statement. Because i do believe in one, but i don't totally dismiss the other. The fact is this,I just dont know.There is no indisputable proof for either.However i do believe in GOD and i have had somethings in my life happen that i wouldn't consider being anything short of miracles. And for many other reasons.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
i guess I would have to agree with that statement. Because i do believe in one, but i don't totally dismiss the other. The fact is this,I just dont know.There is no indisputable proof for either.However i do have believe in GOD and i have had somethings in my life happen that i wouldn't consider being anything short of miracles. And for many other reason. The original question is unanswerable.
I am glad that you do not choose to dismiss the evidence of evolution just because you do not believe it. I think it is very important to understand what information is out there and make a decision based on that. Perhaps I am a bit critical of 'creationism' because in my case it preventing me from learning what the theory of evolution really was and now I am 20 years behind where I could have been if I had been given all the information initially.
Of course if you must believe only one you are probably best believing in God. Pascal had a good idea when he said it is better to be wrong about there being a God than being wrong about there not being one..

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Uh... I mean that God created the days.
"And God called the light "Day" and the darkness he called "Night".
Clown Boy,
If you believe in Creation according to the bible, which story do you believe? There are two different and seemingly contradictory stories in Genesis. The first and most known is in Chapter 1, where God created everything in 6 days and then rested; he created man on the last day AFTER the plants and animals.
The second story is in Chapter 2; it is believed by biblical scholars that this is a much older narrative. In this account, God creates man from clay first. THEN He made all the trees and plants grow from the ground, and THEN he created all the animals on earth for man's sake.
How do you explain the two different narratives?
Also, this is a footnote in the New American Bible for the first chapter of Genesis:
"[5] In ancient Israel a day was considered to begin at sunset. According to the highly artificial literary structure of Genesis 1:1-2:4a, God's creative activity is divided into six days to teach the sacredness of the sabbath rest on the seventh day in the Israelite religion (Genesis 2:2-3)."
Note the words: highly artificial literary structure

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
i guess I would have to agree with that statement. Because i do believe in one, but i don't totally dismiss the other. The fact is this,I just dont know.There is no indisputable proof for either.However i do believe in GOD and i have had somethings in my life happen that i wouldn't consider being anything short of miracles. And for many other reasons.
The idea of proof creates a problem. In the case of the Christian Biblical description of the origin of species, no proof is needed since it is an article of faith. In the case of Darwinian evolution, no proof is possible, because science doesn't work that way. The only place where "proof" has any meaning is in mathematics, where it is possible to unambiguously prove a theorem. In science, theories are only disproven, never proven.

 

[lil' tanker]

Originally Posted by Darknes
Clown Boy,
If you believe in Creation according to the bible, which story do you believe? There are two different and seemingly contradictory stories in Genesis. The first and most known is in Chapter 1, where God created everything in 6 days and then rested; he created man on the last day AFTER the plants and animals.
The second story is in Chapter 2; it is believed by biblical scholars that this is a much older narrative. In this account, God creates man from clay first. THEN He made all the trees and plants grow from the ground, and THEN he created all the animals on earth for man's sake.
How do you explain the two different narratives?
Also, this is a footnote in the New American Bible for the first chapter of Genesis:
"[5] In ancient Israel a day was considered to begin at sunset. According to the highly artificial literary structure of Genesis 1:1-2:4a, God's creative activity is divided into six days to teach the sacredness of the sabbath rest on the seventh day in the Israelite religion (Genesis 2:2-3)."
Note the words: highly artificial literary structure
To answer your first thing about Genesis 1 & 2 being contradictory, It says that plants were there they just hadn't "sprung up" because man wasn't there to garden it, then it says God made Adam and then it says God had planted a garden.
And your second question does not make sense please reword it.

 

[geridoc]

Saint Augustine (A.D. 354-430) in his work The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim) provided excellent advice for all Christians who are faced with the task of interpreting Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge. This translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]

 

[mike22cha]

All I have to say is I can't wait for heaven where we can find out all those questions man has been wondering for years.

 

[lil' tanker]

Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
All I have to say is I can't wait for heaven where we can find out all those questions man has been wondering for years.
I agree!

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I suppose I could try, here is a short passage from the christian bibile's account.
And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19
So it sounds like in this account that God created the bodies of light such as the sun and stars, and although the moon isn't actually a light it seems to be refered to as a light in this case.
The common accepted modern theory is the "Big Bang Theory" which says that the Universe had a start from a common place and has expanded to its current state and is still expanding. This theory very strongly supports the Bible story of creation...which supports my believe that something (life and the universe) came from a creator and not from nothing. As stated in this thread that science is explained mathmatically which also supports my belief because theories such as evolution are statiscally mathmatically impossible.
But perhaps when the universe was created in the "Big Bang" explosion... it produced light... and the days that followed the universe was expanding and on the days in question he put order to the universe by establishing bodies of light, gravity, orbits, rotations, and etc...

 

[geridoc]

theories such as evolution are statiscally mathmatically impossible.
That is a mathematical statement, so where is the proof? Or is it just a belief, needing no proof, and having just as much reliability as "the Martians did it".

 

[reefreak29]

there are so many questions we cannot answer ,it is impossible either way ,but at least having faith in christ and leading a christian life i have hope of eternal life with my creator ,what do i have to gain in evolution ? nothing.
and if its all false what do i have to lose ? nothing . but if its true i gain everything

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
there are so many questions we cannot answer ,it is impossible either way ,but at least having faith in christ and leading a christian life i have hope of eternal life with my creator ,what do i have to gain in evolution ? nothing.
and if its all false what do i have to lose ? nothing . but if its true i gain everything
I cannot disagree with you - if you lead a good life, and if following Christ has led you to that, then great!! But, "what do i have to gain in evolution?" - quite a bit, since drug development, medical treatment (including cancer treatment and many other diseases) are built upon a correct understanding of the relationship of living things to each other. Then there is also the joy of figuring out something for the sake of the chase. Someone earlier posted about how all of these difficult questions will be answered in heaven. i would argue that, for me at least, that would be hell since there would be no questions left. Heaven would be where I could pursue all of the many questions I have.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
I cannot disagree with you - if you lead a good life, and if following Christ has led you to that, then great!! But, "what do i have to gain in evolution?" - quite a bit, since drug development, medical treatment (including cancer treatment and many other diseases) are built upon a correct understanding of the relationship of living things to each other. Then there is also the joy of figuring out something for the sake of the chase. Someone earlier posted about how all of these difficult questions will be answered in heaven. i would argue that, for me at least, that would be hell since there would be no questions left. Heaven would be where I could pursue all of the many questions I have.

in hell you would even gain the knowledge God exsists, but it would be to late, its not a chance im willing to take, why would anyone. you could believe in science and God at the same time

 

[geridoc]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
in hell you would even gain the knowledge God exsists, but it would be to late, its not a chance im willing to take, why would anyone. you could believe in science and God at the same time
Agreed, and many very successful scientists do believe in God. However, most of them do not take the bible as literally as many other people do - hence this thread about evolution. The main dissent to the theory of evolution comes from biblical literalists.

 

[lil' tanker]

Originally Posted by GeriDoc
I cannot disagree with you - if you lead a good life, and if following Christ has led you to that, then great!! But, "what do i have to gain in evolution?" - quite a bit, since drug development, medical treatment (including cancer treatment and many other diseases) are built upon a correct understanding of the relationship of living things to each other. Then there is also the joy of figuring out something for the sake of the chase. Someone earlier posted about how all of these difficult questions will be answered in heaven. i would argue that, for me at least, that would be hell since there would be no questions left. Heaven would be where I could pursue all of the many questions I have.
In Heaven you know everything I believe and all you do all the time is glorify God it's not a place where you try to figure stuff out, God gives you that knowledge. I believe.

 

[lesleybird]

Originally Posted by Darknes
I don't want to start a religious debate or anything here. Just curious, what percentage of you believe in evolution.
The reason I ask is that it is so widely taught to be scientific truth, but in actuality is only a theory. There has never been any evidence that supports evolution, but seems to answer the age-old question: Where did we come from? I think that most people believe in evolution because it gives a down-to-earth explanation rather than having to believe that we were made out of nothing.
We have fossil remains of men from the past as proof of evolution. We can prove evolution from studying a bacteria culture for a short period of time. Or simply looking at your family tree and seeing that we look like another family member. Genetics can be studied in the DNA and this is scientific proof of evolution. How much proof do you need? I think it is enough. I mean just because in the bible it is stated that man was created in a day or something many take this as absolute proof.....and the bible is just a book written by many men. How many books written by man do most people believe without any research or proof to back them up except for the bible? The bible threatens that we should have blind faith and do not question what is in it as it is the gospil without any proof at all.....

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by Lesleybird
We have fossil remains of men from the past as proof of evolution. We can prove evolution from studying a bacteria culture for a short period of time. Or simply looking at your family tree and seeing that we look like another family member. Genetics can be studied in the DNA and this is scientific proof of evolution. How much proof do you need? I think it is enough. I mean just because in the bible it is stated that man was created in a day or something many take this as absolute proof.....and the bible is just a book written by many men. How many books written by man do most people believe without any research or proof to back them up except for the bible? The bible threatens that we should have blind faith and do not question what is in it as it is the gospil without any proof at all.....
knowone has denied the fact that micro evolution exsists

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
The common accepted modern theory is the "Big Bang Theory" which says that the Universe had a start from a common place and has expanded to its current state and is still expanding. This theory very strongly supports the Bible story of creation...which supports my believe that something (life and the universe) came from a creator and not from nothing. As stated in this thread that science is explained mathmatically which also supports my belief because theories such as evolution are statiscally mathmatically impossible.
But perhaps when the universe was created in the "Big Bang" explosion... it produced light... and the days that followed the universe was expanding and on the days in question he put order to the universe by establishing bodies of light, gravity, orbits, rotations, and etc...
Evolution is a theory that works to explain the changes the occur in nature and developes relationships between organisms. The theory of evolution is not "The big bang theory" nor does it state HOW the earth started. The two are not dependant upon each other. How did this world start? That topic has been debated long before the christian bible was written and it will continue to be debated. Evolution is seperate, it looks at what there is now, and what there was before and developes connections. Again, it is the big bang theory.

 

[yerboy]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
knowone has denied the fact that micro evolution exsists
evolution is evolution imo