Flower's Sump/Fuge Build

[acrylic51]

Just a bit of an update from last night.....Started working and routing the bubble trap for the sump.

This is the start of the bubble trap being routed on the router table.....Wish I did have a shop like Norm.....I keep eyeing a nice router table with Freud adjustable fence and Jessem router insert lift.....but the price tag for how much I would actually use it.....

Just a quick pic of the pieces routed and rough mock up of the pieces....I do spend quite a bit of time on dry mock up and fitting.....Thing that sucks once you start gluing it's a little to late to make any adjustments.....

 

[monsinour]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316100
Just a quick pic of the pieces routed and rough mock up of the pieces....I do spend quite a bit of time on dry mock up and fitting.....Thing that sucks once you start gluing it's a little to late to make any adjustments.....
I believe that falls under the "measure twice, cut once" rule of thumb, does it not? I dont get the bubble trap in the sump thing. That looks like what would be in the DT and not the sump. Where is that going, in the fuge to prevent bubbles into the sump? In the sump to prevent bubbles into the return pump area?

 

[al&burke]

 

[flower]

Hi Shawn,
I love the bubble trap, anything to be rid of bubbles. My problem has always been the skimmer creating bubbles..Am I correct that is why you made the baffles? Then you changed the spacing..Was there a reason concerning bubbles (is there a concern?) or was it just space in the sump you are after…??? After the bubble trap is in, is the sump part finished?
The refugium looks less complicated to make, just put the four sides together and drill two holes…so does that mean you are almost finished…do you have a time line to help me anticipate a when?
I know we still have to get the hardware and skimmer…I need to know how to go about doing all that too. I think that’s about all the questions I can aggravate you with for the moment.
Now before you think I’m just like an anxious child, which is true, my excuse is I’m tired of daily water changes....I see light at the tunnel.

 

[acrylic51]

Ok guys and gals!!!! On the move right now and having a brain fart!!!! What is the footprint of the SS 1000 and operating depth (preferred)?

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316172
Ok guys and gals!!!! On the move right now and having a brain fart!!!! What is the footprint of the SS 1000 and operating depth (preferred)?
-Super Reef Octopus® 6” Space Saver Cone Skimmer
-Dimensions: 9.5”x7.5”x20.5”
-Rated up to 125gal.
-Features the new Bubble Blaster HY1000S
-High quality machine welded cast acrylic construction
-High performance design
-3 year warranty on Bubble Blaster pump. 1 year warranty on skimmer. Lifetime warranty on support.
I'll look for the preferred OP depth

 

[meowzer]

So far I only found some info on other forums.....
6-8" seems to be the consensus so far......I'm gonna keep looking though

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/20#post_3311942
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316185
So far I only found some info on other forums.....
6-8" seems to be the consensus so far......I'm gonna keep looking though

I read in the description of the skimmer some place it takes 8 inches to run properly. I never remember where I read things, but I don’t forget what I have read, on things I understand anyway. I went back through the posts looking and I can't find anything on depth. So it had to be a web site...

 

[u mike]

6 to 8 " is more then enough. i am at 8" working just perfect. If you look at the picture of the sump there is a rubber hole where the water goes through that is less then 6' . when you put all the pieces of the skimmer together it will attach to the bubble blaster pump.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by u mike http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316205
6 to 8 " is more then enough. i am at 8" working just perfect. If you look at the picture of the sump there is a rubber hole where the water goes through that is less then 6' . when you put all the pieces of the skimmer together it will attach to the bubble blaster pump.

Cool..you have one. How does the cup come off? I would just like to know...my coralife screws on and off, my old CPR just had an inner cup that sat down in another cup. This one looks different than either one of those. OH ad how is it on micro bubbles?

 

[u mike]

The cup is very easy to come off. where the white section is at the top is where they seperate. i hope these pics help if not let me know.

 

[flower]

Sweet! It just pops right out. Oh life is going to be so much easier! I see it has a little drain nub so I can run a line and let it drain into a jug too. This skimmer I have now, I don’t tighten it right and it leaks all over. I dread cleaning it, it has that same drain nub which helps, but eventually I have to unscrew it
You’re a big help..Thanks..

 

[2quills]

Ok, I got another email response back from the guys over at CPR with some questions that we had that Shawn and I want to be sure on. Shawn, brought up the question of having a large overflow with a pump that is well below it's rating. And it does seem that the closer you can get the flow to the rating of the overflow then the more secure the syphon will be.
Also, Flower will want to run the aqua lifter pump 24/7 in order to have the highest chance of success at the prevention of flooding. (Don't freak out, Flower...this is just the best way)
But there are a couple of ways to do it.
1.) Is to run the aqua lifter 24/7 with the output hose submerged underwater in either the overflow, the tank or the sump. This will hold the syphon if the power goes off and will also ensure that the syphon begins draining immediately after the power comes on.
2.) Is to run airline hose from the port on the top of the overflow to a port on a powerhead inside of the tank. This method is recommend to use with a large powerhead as the way that powerheads pull air is not quite as efficient as the way that an aqua lifter pump pulls air.
3.) You can manually start the syphon using your mouth with a piece of airline hose on the port ontop of the overflow with air check valve connected to the end of it in order to aid in the prevention of air building up in the overflow. But air will innevitably build up in time and you would have to periodically remove air from the overflow from time to time. This method is not as efficient as either of the 2 options above or as safe.
Also, in light of the things above...I believe it would be in our best interest to step down one size in overflows. Bringing the rating down from 800GPH to 600GPH. As the CS-90 600GPH overflow would be the one that is most closley rated for Flowers size tank. The only other one smaller than that is the CS-50 which is only rated at 300GPH and that is to small for her.
Shawn, I know that's a little bit more flow than what we had initially talked about. But it still would at least be on the higher end of what we were thinking. We could still get approximately 4x-5x's turnover through the sump while having approx. 1x-2x's through the fuge.
What does everyone else here think? Would the CS-90 be the better choice for Flower?
Any other Ideas?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316298
Ok, I got another email response back from the guys over at CPR with some questions that we had that Shawn and I want to be sure on. Shawn, brought up the question of having a large overflow with a pump that is well below it's rating. And it does seem that the closer you can get the flow to the rating of the overflow then the more secure the syphon will be.
Also, Flower will want to run the aqua lifter pump 24/7 in order to have the highest chance of success at the prevention of flooding. (Don't freak out, Flower...this is just the best way)
But there are a couple of ways to do it.
1.) Is to run the aqua lifter 24/7 with the output hose submerged underwater in either the overflow, the tank or the sump. This will hold the syphon if the power goes off and will also ensure that the syphon begins draining immediately after the power comes on.
2.) Is to run airline hose from the port on the top of the overflow to a port on a powerhead inside of the tank. This method is recommend to use with a large powerhead as the way that powerheads pull air is not quite as efficient as the way that an aqua lifter pump pulls air.
3.) You can manually start the syphon using your mouth with a piece of airline hose on the port ontop of the overflow with air check valve connected to the end of it in order to aid in the prevention of air building up in the overflow. But air will innevitably build up in time and you would have to periodically remove air from the overflow from time to time. This method is not as efficient as either of the 2 options above or as safe.
Also, in light of the things above...I believe it would be in our best interest to step down one size in overflows. Bringing the rating down from 800GPH to 600GPH. As the CS-90 600GPH overflow would be the one that is most closley rated for Flowers size tank. The only other one smaller than that is the CS-50 which is only rated at 300GPH and that is to small for her.
Shawn, I know that's a little bit more flow than what we had initially talked about. But it still would at least be on the higher end of what we were thinking. We could still get approximately 4x-5x's turnover through the sump while having approx. 1x-2x's through the fuge.
What does everyone else here think? Would the CS-90 be the better choice for Flower?
Any other Ideas?
I like this one, resume when power is restored..Quesion: What does it mean to hold the siphon? I thougt you wanted the siphon to break using a hole below the water surface????
1.) Is to run the aqua lifter 24/7 with the output hose submerged underwater in either the overflow, the tank or the sump. This will hold the syphon if the power goes off and will also ensure that the syphon begins draining immediately after the power comes on.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316306
I like this one, resume when power is restored..Quesion: What does it mean to hold the siphon? I thougt you wanted the siphon to break using a hole below the water surface????
1.) Is to run the aqua lifter 24/7 with the output hose submerged underwater in either the overflow, the tank or the sump. This will hold the syphon if the power goes off and will also ensure that the syphon begins draining immediately after the power comes on.
Good question...
You want the syphon to always hold in your overflow. This means that it will always be draining while the pump is on...air can cause the syphon to break (which you know) and is excactly what we don't want. But in the event of a power outage we want the syhpon in the overflow to hold that way is starts draining immediately because the pump is going to start pushing water into the tank right within seconds.
The area where we want the syphon to break in the event of a power outage is on the return line. Because if your returns are under the water line then they will keep backflowing/draining water into the sump while the pump is not running. The only way to prevent this backflow is with a syphon break on that line. Again, another way to avoid getting too much backflow going into the sump would be to keep the returns close to the water surface.
You're going to get SOME backflow no matter what...but the idea here is to minimize this so that we don't flood the sump.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316312
Good question...
You want the syphon to always hold in your overflow. This means that it will always be draining while the pump is on...air can cause the syphon to break (which you know) and is excactly what we don't want. But in the event of a power outage we want the syhpon in the overflow to hold that way is starts draining immediately because the pump is going to start pushing water into the tank right within seconds.
The area where we want the syphon to break in the event of a power outage is on the return line. Because if your returns are under the water line then they will keep backflowing/draining water into the sump while the pump is not running. The only way to prevent this backflow is with a syphon break on that line. Again, another way to avoid getting too much backflow going into the sump would be to keep the returns close to the water surface.
You're going to get SOME backflow no matter what...but the idea here is to minimize this so that we don't flood the sump.

Well I certainly understand what you are saying..but I am still confused. As soon as the pump that is pushing water into the tank stops, doesn’t it create a siphon and will draw water back to the sump by gravity the same way the output (backflow) tube does… only it has no hole to break it???

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316322

Well I certainly understand what you are saying..but I am still confused. As soon as the pump that is pushing water into the tank stops, doesn’t it create a siphon and will draw water back to the sump by gravity the same way the output (backflow) tube does… only it has no hole to break it???
The way I like to think of it Flower is that you will have two overflows on your tank. One when the pump is running and one when the pump is off. When the pump is off gravity/backflow will flow backwards down the return tube and into the sump by the same principles of syphon that your overflow drain will. When the pump is running ofcorse why want to maintain the syphon on the overflow and keep the syphon held when the pump is off. The idea here is that we really don't want any syphon at all on the return line when the power goes of whatsoever.
Like I mentioned...we will get some backflow when the power to the return pump goes off, but the key is to minimize how much will actually backflow by way of creating a syphon break or adjusting the returns accordingly.
Basically...
Syphon on Overflow = good
Syphon on Return line = bad (we want to break this syphon)

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316329
The way I like to think of it Flower is that you will have two overflows on your tank. One when the pump is running and one when the pump is off. When the pump is off gravity/backflow will flow backwards down the return tube and into the sump by the same principles of syphon that your overflow drain will. When the pump is running ofcorse why want to maintain the syphon on the overflow and keep the syphon held when the pump is off. The idea here is that we really don't want any syphon at all on the return line when the power goes of whatsoever.
Like I mentioned...we will get some backflow when the power to the return pump goes off, but the key is to minimize how much will actually backflow by way of creating a syphon break or adjusting the returns accordingly.
Basically...
Syphon on Overflow = good
Syphon on Return line = bad (we want to break this syphon)

Okay I understand what you want to do…Let me ask the question another way…What makes that hose stable so it does not become like the return hose and siphon back to the sump? What makes it suspend the water in place inside the hose?

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316343

Okay I understand what you want to do…Let me ask the question another way…What makes that hose stable so it does not become like the return hose and siphon back to the sump? What makes it suspend the water in place inside the hose?
Nothing really...the reason the overflow won't continue to drain once the return pump is off is because no water will be being pumped into the tank for it to drain.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the left over water thats in the hose when the return pump goes off will still drain down into the sump...and that's exactly why I said that you will get some backflow or flow, no matter what.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/380517/flower-s-sump-fuge-build/420#post_3316345
Nothing really...the reason the overflow won't continue to drain once the return pump is off is because no water will be being pumped into the tank for it to drain.

LOL..That is the kind of answers I always got from my science teachers…LOL… No water will be pumped into the overflow either but it will siphon back.. maybe it has something to do with the direction of the water from pumps pull or push.
I will never understand physics. I guess if it won’t siphon, then that will have to do for an explanation, I trust you have done it enough to know what will happen.
Rabbis say they would rather pull out their entire beard by hand than try and teach a woman.