"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon," said our president.

[mantisman51]

Good information. I hadn't been paying attention too much the last few days. But that explains why none of us could figure out the evidence she was justifying a murder charge with-there is none. I know this is a political hot potato, but a super pac needs to hammer home the last 2 months of the election that a black president and his black radical allies wanted a Hispanic young man lynched-legally or illegally-to Hispanic voters. He has made several speeches at fund raisers insinuating whites don't like a black president and that's why he is being "persecuted", so let the race-baiting be thrown his way. They are going to have every illegal alien, felon and dead person voting that they can get away with, so I say just about any angle to fight fire with fire is fair game.

 

[reefraff]

0bama ain't having a great week LOL!
Stay at home moms
0bama's appetite for dog meat
Bad economic numbers
Nancy Pelosi wants to change the first amendment
69 Democrats voted in favor of the Keystone pipeline
Senate Democrat promises to propose a budget and Harry Reid has to block it

 

[beth]

Evidence that substantiates Zim's statement that his head was bashed against sidewalk. This was taken by a witness immediately following the shooting.

 

[deejeff442]

i didnt read everyones posts but all i can say is...if obama comes out and says he would look like my son it makes me sick to even mention this case if i were the president.obama is a wart on the american flag.i dont like romney much but he is still 100% better than the scumbag in the white house now

 

[jerthunter]

0bama ain't having a great week LOL!
Stay at home moms
0bama's appetite for dog meat
Bad economic numbers
Nancy Pelosi wants to change the first amendment
69 Democrats voted in favor of the Keystone pipeline
Senate Democrat promises to propose a budget and Harry Reid has to block it
As Romney pointed out, being a stay at home mom is the hardest job in the world. So hard in fact that he wants single mothers to get jobs outside of the home so they can have 'some pride' in themselves.
And dog meat is good eatting, the trick is to prep the meat while the dog is still alive, usually by strapping its cage to the roof of you car and driving for several hours.
But I see your point, he had a bad week. I'd add another indicator of his poor week:
He out fund raised Romney 10 to 1 I believe last month.

 

[jerthunter]

Good thing he shot the kid, it looks like he would have probably bled to death from those gaping head wounds.

 

[mantisman51]

So another liberal thinks citizens should lie back and take whatever happens to them without defending themselves. Proving what I have always said: liberals are sadistic bas-people trying to disguise themselves as compassionate. Trouble is they only have compassion for criminals and "minorities". All others should just accept their fate.

 

[reefraff]

The blind partisans will give 0bama money but it isn't going to matter. It's pretty hard to convince someone you're doing a good job when they have several friends and family member on unemployment. Unless there is a serious turn in the economy 0bama is one and done. The economic numbers that just came out show the same pattern we had last year, that ain't going to get it done.

 

[jerthunter]

The blind partisans will give 0bama money but it isn't going to matter. It's pretty hard to convince someone you're doing a good job when they have several friends and family member on unemployment. Unless there is a serious turn in the economy 0bama is one and done. The economic numbers that just came out show the same pattern we had last year, that ain't going to get it done.
Maybe I come from a different place, having never been unemployeed. I don't see all thse doom and gloom that many republicans talk about. What I do see is a robust local uptick in large industrial manufacturing after a rather poor time of manufacturing that stated in mid 2008. I see shops that are expanding, hiring, and still being unable to keep up with demand. On a more objective scale, the economic numbers are showing a decline in unemployment and an increase in hiring. And although it isn't necessarily a sign of a better economy for individuals, the stock market has performed fairly wellfor me over the past few years.
I suppose I should say something about the boy so my post isn't totally off topic. When someone is killed, I tend to favor their side of the story because they aren't around to tell it. I find it hard to say that we have to take the story of a shooter and buy into it since the only other person who might give us a first hand account is dead.

 

[beth]

Jerthunter, I believe that most of us here are opposing the rush to judgment over what exactly happened in the face of lack of evidence. Its hard for many to stomach a murder 2 charge when law enforcement admits in court they don't have evidence to support that charge. The worst of it is the self serving politicizing of this whole thing.
A young man died which is certainly horrible and tragic. However, the aftermath tar and feathering, in the face of lack of evidence, is abhorrent. Supposedly, you are innocent until proved guilty in this country, right?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/180#post_3471063
Maybe I come from a different place, having never been unemployeed. I don't see all thse doom and gloom that many republicans talk about. What I do see is a robust local uptick in large industrial manufacturing after a rather poor time of manufacturing that stated in mid 2008. I see shops that are expanding, hiring, and still being unable to keep up with demand. On a more objective scale, the economic numbers are showing a decline in unemployment and an increase in hiring. And although it isn't necessarily a sign of a better economy for individuals, the stock market has performed fairly wellfor me over the past few years.
I suppose I should say something about the boy so my post isn't totally off topic. When someone is killed, I tend to favor their side of the story because they aren't around to tell it. I find it hard to say that we have to take the story of a shooter and buy into it since the only other person who might give us a first hand account is dead.
I've had a couple of unemployed periods but we are talking weeks, not months or the new standard, years. I am in a state that is opposite of yours. The recession didn't hit as hard here and job growth has also been good. However I still know of 3 people who have been unemployed for over a year, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT MANY PEOPLE LOL!!! Point is I survived the late 70's economy and a bad as that was it isn't even close to as bad as the economy is right here right now. I've cleaned up in the stock market the last 4 years. Funny thing is I made the most money in 2008 when everything was going to hell. On it's own stock market performance doesn't mean a lot.
As far as the kid goes I think back to the Duke Lacross case. Everyone just knew those guys were guilty too. I don't tend to favor one side or the other in these cases but when there is a rush to judgement like there has been in this case it makes me sick.

 

[jerthunter]

Beth, I believe in being innocent until proven guilty as well. I believed from the start that a complete investigation and potentially a trial would be needed to settle this issue. What personally bothers me is the people who are basically blaming it on the kid, when he isn't around to defend himself. Maybe he was a punk, maybe not, but either way, he is dead and it bothers me when people are trying very hard to pin all the blame on him. As far as the charge of Murder 2, I would imagine there must be some evidence that hasn't been leaked (seeing as really none of it ever should have been leaked), but we will have to wait for a trial if we want to find out.
Reefraff, I think it all must be a matter of prospective. I came from Ohio (actually right where both Obama and Romney made their speechs last week, went to school at the community college Obama spoke at and lived a few miles from the closed factory Romney spoke at) where the economy has been in the tank since my childhood, and now I live and work in Michigan where we have some rather high unemployment numbers (starting in 2008 right when I moved here). So from my prospective things are looking up compared to what I grew up with. But if I came from a healthier economy maybe I'd be seeing the same doom and gloom that I hear about all the time on the radio and tv.

 

[mantisman51]

1) Zimmerman may be guilty something-I'm sick of liberal "whitey killed innocent black-he must die" garbage. 2) My exception with your liberal knee-jerking is that if his head was being pounded into the pavement then he had the right to defend himself. 3) So victims should never be able to use deadly force so that criminals lives aren't taken? Just die pacifically and let the legal system (hopefully) catch the bad guy later? Why yes, that sounds reasonable to me...

 

[beth]

Jerthunter, the problem as I see it is that before a trail is ever considered, there should be evidence to substantiate the charge of murder 2. The signed, sworn affidavit charging the accused filed by the prosecutor must also be backed by evidence to justify the charge of murder 2. When an investigator from the prosecutor's office gets on the stand and tells the court that there is no evidence to back up the affidavit charging the accused with murder 2, there is something very seriously wrong going on.
This case has been fairly polarized but why exactly did that happen? It began because Zimmerman was painted as a racist bigot who profiled a black kid then hunted him down and killed him. And, while many people believe that to be the case, there are many more who haven't exactly seen evidence to that effect and are objecting to Zimmerman being railroaded by the press, black activists, and perhaps even the prosecutor.
Trayvon may have escalated the situation and started an altercation, but maybe he did not. Zimmerman may have followed Trayvon and confronted him, but maybe he didn't. Who knows right now. The prosecutor's office should know before arresting Zim, however, their own investigator got up in court on Friday and said that they didn't know even though his affidavit said otherwise. That is amazing and disturbing to me. A person shouldn't be facing murder 2 based on an affidavit full of serious accusation that can't be substantiated.

 

[mantisman51]

Beth, I am less diplomatic in my phrasing, but this is where the disconnect is: Jerth in his own writing has said the fact that someone was killed, whether the aggressor or not, there is a crime-no matter the circumstance. Most on the side of lynching think that no matter what transpired, it is murder. That is the divide that will not be breached. There are those who think it is never ok to defend one's self. And the fact that Zimmerman is "white Hispanic" and the dead kid is black adds to the urgency to lynch the suspect-regardless of facts.

 

[reefraff]

I honestly never heard anyone blame this on the kid. Most of what I've heard is people criticizing the media for portraying Martin as some wide eyed 13 year old and showing an old mug shot of Zimmerman. Based on the photos they were showing you'd think it was impossible that little kid would have attacked an adult. When you see current photos of each it paints a completely different picture. And that isn't to say Martin was the aggressor, just that it's possible.

 

[jerthunter]

Perhaps we are reading different threads. I see plenty of posts where people are bringing up pictures of the dead kid and implying he was a thug, posts where people bring up his juvenille 'record' as evidence that he was a thug, posts where people defend the shooter based on their own past experiences with people of a certain race, etc.
Perhaps I should go back and see where I wrote that because someone died it is a crime, no matter what. I don't remember typing that, but if its there, its there. Personally if someone gets shot and killed I believe is should be fully investigated to see if its a crime, but that doesn't mean it is. I do have an issue with what appeared initially as an unwillingness of the prosecutor to pursue any charges in the matter, and I still believe that if there hadn't been any national attention the legal system would have just tried to sweep this under the rug and forget about it.
I also have an issue with people trying to make this an 'us vs. them' topic. You don't have to liberal or a democrate to think this guy is potentially guilty, nor to you have to defend the shooter just because you don't care for Obama. To me this issue isn't about race, although I can see how it could appear that way since the guy did place a lot of 911 calls for suspicious black people leading up to this shooting. But even without race the kid is dead, the guy shot him and the kid's family deserves a full and complete investigation. Sure there are people trying to make this political. There are people who call me a democrate or liberal because of my opinion on the case.

 

[mantisman51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/180#post_3471063
I suppose I should say something about the boy so my post isn't totally off topic. When someone is killed, I tend to favor their side of the story because they aren't around to tell it. I find it hard to say that we have to take the story of a shooter and buy into it since the only other person who might give us a first hand account is dead.
So you are not saying that a person who kills another person is automatically guilty until proven otherwise? Maybe I am reading the wrong thread.

 

[mantisman51]

Black people marching in the street because "another black boy was killed by a white man" isn't about race? A black president saying Martin, being black, hits home because he is black isn't about race? The black panthers(lower case intentional) calling for killing 100 whites for every black person killed isn't about race? The news media and most "black leaders" calling Zimmerman white over and over to reinforce the idea of white versus black isn't about race? The lie being told by the media that white on black crime is common and whites are never held accountable isn't about race? The democrats(again lower case is intentional) calling for self-defense laws be repealed isn't liberal versus conservative? Yeah, I can see how someone might get the idea this isn't about race and politics(sarcasm intentional).

 

[jerthunter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/180#post_3471118
So you are not saying that a person who kills another person is automatically guilty until proven otherwise? Maybe I am reading the wrong thread.
You are absolutely correct. Nowhere in that quoted statement did I say the shooter is automatically guilty. I DID say I don't like that I have to take the shooters word for it. If we could just take a shooters word then there are alot of people in jail we should let out, because I am sure they would say they are innocent. There was a line in The Shawshank Redemption "Everyone in here is innocent, you know that?"