"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon," said our president.

jerthunter

jerthunter

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/180#post_3471119
Black people marching in the street because "another black boy was killed by a white man" isn't about race? A black president saying Martin, being black, hits home because he is black isn't about race? The black panthers(lower case intentional) calling for killing 100 whites for every black person killed isn't about race? The news media and most "black leaders" calling Zimmerman white over and over to reinforce the idea of white versus black isn't about race? The lie being told by the media that white on black crime is common and whites are never held accountable isn't about race? The democrats(again lower case is intentional) calling for self-defense laws be repealed isn't liberal versus conservative? Yeah, I can see how someone might get the idea this isn't about race and politics(sarcasm intentional).
So because some wackos use this killing to support their radical cause we shouldn't care about what happened to kid? Just because you don't like Obama we shouldn't care about the kid?
I am sure there are some radical groups that have some minor overlap of ideals to me, but that doesn't mean I have to toss out those beliefs. If the KKK is upset about unemployment rates, that doesn't mean everyone that is upset about unemployment supports the KKK. So a hate group uses this unfortunate event to further their cause, that doesn't mean I support their cause just because I agree this is a tragedy and I want to see justice served.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/180#post_3471111
Perhaps we are reading different threads. I see plenty of posts where people are bringing up pictures of the dead kid and implying he was a thug, posts where people bring up his juvenille 'record' as evidence that he was a thug, posts where people defend the shooter based on their own past experiences with people of a certain race, etc.
Perhaps I should go back and see where I wrote that because someone died it is a crime, no matter what. I don't remember typing that, but if its there, its there. Personally if someone gets shot and killed I believe is should be fully investigated to see if its a crime, but that doesn't mean it is. I do have an issue with what appeared initially as an unwillingness of the prosecutor to pursue any charges in the matter, and I still believe that if there hadn't been any national attention the legal system would have just tried to sweep this under the rug and forget about it.
I also have an issue with people trying to make this an 'us vs. them' topic. You don't have to liberal or a democrate to think this guy is potentially guilty, nor to you have to defend the shooter just because you don't care for Obama. To me this issue isn't about race, although I can see how it could appear that way since the guy did place a lot of 911 calls for suspicious black people leading up to this shooting. But even without race the kid is dead, the guy shot him and the kid's family deserves a full and complete investigation. Sure there are people trying to make this political. There are people who call me a democrate or liberal because of my opinion on the case.
Who implied he was a thug? He's had "issues" at school/ That doesn't make him a thug but it does debunk the myth he was some little kid who only cared about his skittles. I don't know about you but my first exposure to this case was Al Sharpton's mug in the camera screaming about another racial injustice and the killed is dead because he was racially profiled.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The only reason that anybody even knows about this case is because of all the media accusations against a "white" zimmerman racially profiling a boy (that looked like a 12 year old) then gunning him down because he was black. Too bad the media didn't know that zimmerman was actually "hispanic" from the get-go; we would have never known a thing about this case! LOL I love how the media tried to go down the "white hispanic" route to keep the flames going.
Jerthunter, I don't know that this case would have been swept under the rug had it not been for all the hoopla. I'm sure that many cases don't get a 100% attention. But as a result of the racial hoopla, I'm not at all convinced that zimmerman is or will get a fair shake. This guy is not a cold blooded killer and unless the prosecutor's investigator lied in court on Friday about not having evidence, then there is no proof a murder 2 charge is justified.
 
jerthunter

jerthunter

Active Member
Reefraff - I should be careful since I do not want to put words into your mouth, but I got the impression that you were implying that the kid was up to no good. Awhile back in the 11 pages of this thread you pointed out that the kid had been caught with a screwdriver at school (a burglary tool per the story) and therefore there was a possibility that he was casing the area when the shooter saw him.
I'm not saying that you think the kid was a thug, but based on some of your comments and comments of a few other people, there seems to be a bunch of focus, atleast on this thread, regarding how the kid might be to blame.
As I said before I tend to err on the side of the kid since he is dead. If his parents want to remember him as an angel, thats their right, if they want justice or closure then I support them.
Regarding my exposure to the reporting of this, I don't watch news on tv except local weather, so I have not seen the likes of Al Sharpton speaking about this as a race issue.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http://../if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-treyvon-said-our-president/20#post_3467395
Put yourself in Treyvon's situation. What would you do? What if this was your 17 year old son or daughter that was being followed by a suspicious car for no reason. You're just walking down the street, sipping your tea, heading back to your relative's home, when all of a sudden, this car appears with some guy looking at you. It appears Treyvon initially ignored him and kept walking. Now the guy comes out and confronts him for whatever reason. What do you think a 6'2" kid that apparently had some displine issues is going to do? I imagine he didn't back down to Zimmerman. At what point did Zimmerman show the gun? Again, in that scenario, if someone is showing or waving a gun at you, on a dark street with no one else around, are you just going to walk off expecting this armed person to just get back into his car and drive away, or are you going to defend yourself and make sure he doesn't shoot you in the back? Knowing Zimmerman's history as a sort of Neighborhood Watch Vigillante, do you think he simply asked Treyvon what he was doing, then said "Oh OK, have a nice night."? I'm willing to bet he was showing or handling this firearn in a manner that was quite intimidating to Treyvon. Regardless if he backed off and turned around to go to his car, if I was in that scenario, I may have well jumped the guy myself to make sure he didn't have a chance to shoot me. At this point, it's He said, He said. Unfortunately, one of the individuals in the altercation is dead, and doesn't have the opportunity to tell his side of the story. You're taking the stand of "Well Zimmerman said Treyvon jumped him when his back is turned, so he MUST be telling the truth." I think Jerthunter said it best. Why should we take his word over Treyvon's? Is there some proof he's this upstanding citizen that would never hurt anyone? Look at the video Jerthunter provided. Doesn't look like he was roughed up to me.

Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/20#post_3467423
Where are the witnesses to back up a single thing you assumed?
Here are a couple FACTS
Zimmerman was treated at the scene by paramedics.
A witness says it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help as the "kid" stood over him beating on him
At this point nobody knows which person started the physical altercation and that is what is going to make or break this case.
However the more info that comes out the more credible Zimmerman's story seems.
It's also interesting to note that when Martin was suspended from school one time it was after he was seen on the security cameras "acting suspicious" and later seen tagging a locker. When he was searched looking for the marker he used to tag the locker they found a bunch of women's jewelry and a flattened out screwdriver in his back pack. He claimed none of it was his and claimed someone gave it to him. Yeah, right. Maybe the kid was casing the neighborhood. We'll never know. Can't convict him without evidence. Just like Zimmerman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/200#post_3471212
Reefraff - I should be careful since I do not want to put words into your mouth, but I got the impression that you were implying that the kid was up to no good. Awhile back in the 11 pages of this thread you pointed out that the kid had been caught with a screwdriver at school (a burglary tool per the story) and therefore there was a possibility that he was casing the area when the shooter saw him.
I'm not saying that you think the kid was a thug, but based on some of your comments and comments of a few other people, there seems to be a bunch of focus, atleast on this thread, regarding how the kid might be to blame.
As I said before I tend to err on the side of the kid since he is dead. If his parents want to remember him as an angel, thats their right, if they want justice or closure then I support them.
Regarding my exposure to the reporting of this, I don't watch news on tv except local weather, so I have not seen the likes of Al Sharpton speaking about this as a race issue.
LOL! I see where you got off track. I was making a point to Bionic. Look at all the crazy assumptions he made based on nothing in the post I was responding to. I used Martins known history and threw out the possibility he was up to no good. But notice I finished by saying "We'll never know, you can't convict him without evidence. Just like Zimmerman"
I think I stated somewhere upthread even assuming Martin was up to no good he didn't deserve to die based on that. You'd think Zimmerman would have been able to deal with the situation without having to shoot the kid. As I think I've been pretty consistent in saying this is gonna come down to who instigated the physical altercation.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I don't blame Martin's parents for any emotion they express. They had their unarmed 17 y/o son shot to death. I'm thinking no one here has once condemned anything his parents have said. Regardless of fault in the shooting, they are justified in expressing outrage-even labeling it a racially motivated murder. I can't even begin to understand the anguish they are going through. The race pimps on the other hand, have me enraged. The democrat party trying to use this tragedy to push for their long-cherished gun control agenda have me enraged. The news media who, as Beth quite eloquently stated have used deceptive word-smithing to whip up a racial frenzy have me enraged. If Zimmerman used his gun in excessive force or criminally, I want him to go to jail. If he did something stupid(like following Martin-we still don't know), but then withdrew and was attacked by an enraged Martin and used his firearm only after being attacked, he should be set free. I am neither rep nor dem, but I can clearly see it is the dems and their race pimp allies stoking this terrible tragedy for what they perceive as political gain. If some innocent whites or Hispanics are murdered by a black loose cannon using this case as justification, the black panthers, Jackson, Sharpton, Jackson-Lee and yes, Obama need to be charged for instigating public violence.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I just read this back and remembered it's only white conservatives who can be accused of instigating violence. Silly me.
 
jerthunter

jerthunter

Active Member
You know what bothers me alot about this situation? The fact that it is turning into a political fight at all. Why can't people make up their minds about this without it coming down to an issue of being conservative or liberal. It reminds me of several years ago when people who jump on anything Bush said or did and automatically disagree with it, just because they didn't like Bush. It also drives me crazy because people from both sides just sit and point at the other side and blame them for making it political when they are both doing the same thing.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/200#post_3471325
I don't blame Martin's parents for any emotion they express. They had their unarmed 17 y/o son shot to death. I'm thinking no one here has once condemned anything his parents have said. Regardless of fault in the shooting, they are justified in expressing outrage-even labeling it a racially motivated murder. I can't even begin to understand the anguish they are going through. The race pimps on the other hand, have me enraged. The democrat party trying to use this tragedy to push for their long-cherished gun control agenda have me enraged. The news media who, as Beth quite eloquently stated have used deceptive word-smithing to whip up a racial frenzy have me enraged. If Zimmerman used his gun in excessive force or criminally, I want him to go to jail. If he did something stupid(like following Martin-we still don't know), but then withdrew and was attacked by an enraged Martin and used his firearm only after being attacked, he should be set free. I am neither rep nor dem, but I can clearly see it is the dems and their race pimp allies stoking this terrible tragedy for what they perceive as political gain. If some innocent whites or Hispanics are murdered by a black loose cannon using this case as justification, the black panthers, Jackson, Sharpton, Jackson-Lee and yes, Obama need to be charged for instigating public violence.
The retribution attacks are already happening.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/attackers-allegedly-yell-trayvon-before-beating-man-in-another-possible-racially-motivated-assault/
there are at least 2 others.
Let the system work.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/200#post_3471325
I don't blame Martin's parents for any emotion they express. They had their unarmed 17 y/o son shot to death. I'm thinking no one here has once condemned anything his parents have said. Regardless of fault in the shooting, they are justified in expressing outrage-even labeling it a racially motivated murder. I can't even begin to understand the anguish they are going through. The race pimps on the other hand, have me enraged. The democrat party trying to use this tragedy to push for their long-cherished gun control agenda have me enraged. The news media who, as Beth quite eloquently stated have used deceptive word-smithing to whip up a racial frenzy have me enraged. If Zimmerman used his gun in excessive force or criminally, I want him to go to jail. If he did something stupid(like following Martin-we still don't know), but then withdrew and was attacked by an enraged Martin and used his firearm only after being attacked, he should be set free. I am neither rep nor dem, but I can clearly see it is the dems and their race pimp allies stoking this terrible tragedy for what they perceive as political gain. If some innocent whites or Hispanics are murdered by a black loose cannon using this case as justification, the black panthers, Jackson, Sharpton, Jackson-Lee and yes, Obama need to be charged for instigating public violence.
"deceptive wordsmithing"?
Are you kidding me?
Editing the 911 call to make it sound like Mr Zimmerman was "profiling"?
Suddenly finding "another layer" in the photo that showed the lacerations to the back of Zimmerman's head?
Those people should be in jail.
Zimmerman may be as guilty as the day is long, but are we not innocent until proven guilty? Either way his life is over. At the very least he had to kill to save his life. No much fun to live with. If guilty he faces jail, and if found innocent, where will he live or work where he is not in fear for his life? The politicians and press have ruined his life either way. He will not be safe in jail either. I see some nice lawsuits against ABC, NBC and others over the way they "reported" this news to further an agenda.
I weep for the death of a young man, but I also weep for the death of justice.
This Representative apparently has all the facts.....this is how people die
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/27/dem_congressman_trayvon_was_hunted_down_like_a_dog_shot_down_in_the_street.html
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerthunter http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/200#post_3471344
You know what bothers me alot about this situation? The fact that it is turning into a political fight at all. Why can't people make up their minds about this without it coming down to an issue of being conservative or liberal. It reminds me of several years ago when people who jump on anything Bush said or did and automatically disagree with it, just because they didn't like Bush. It also drives me crazy because people from both sides just sit and point at the other side and blame them for making it political when they are both doing the same thing.
Unfortunately once rev Al got involved it was going to become political. Now the police chief, who by the way did nothing wrong, offered to fully resign and the city council is refusing it (good for them) based on not wanting outsiders deciding how their town is ran. I honestly think this is going to get a lot worse because I don't think they can make the charges stick. Wouldn't want to live down there.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Other than conservatives pointing out and being pissed off by the left turning this situation into a white-bashing, get-out-the-vote ploy by the dems, this is a one way political fight.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I think that if the media will just stay out of it, then all the hate mongers will go away. Too much effort to stage hate crimes if no one is watching.
My feeling is that because we have such laws as stand your ground the tide is turning with criminality. No longer are law abiding citizens sitting ducks. You know why? The thug doesn't really know if he will be facing down a loaded gun when he plans out a home invasion, a break in, or a car jack.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
My worry about this whole mess is the left will use it to attack make my day laws. I am 1000 percent convinced they work. We have it here in co. One guy got his trailer stolen. He saw the thieves driving away with it and opened fire on them hitting one. The thieves were convicted but so was the shooter. The system works. You can shoot to protect yourself if you are threatened, not pissed off.
 
jerthunter

jerthunter

Active Member
I read the story posted here about the retaliation attacks and another one this morning about some guy getting beat up after yelling at some kids playing basketball, and apparently Trayvon's name was used somewhere in the attack.
I wonder how much of this is really about race and how much is people just using race as an excuse to act a certain way.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Hard to say. I have the advantage of being a mutt so I don't have the frame of reference of being ignorant enough to identify myself by ethnicity. It's one thing to be aware of your cultural heritage but when it's the basis for what you think and how you act? Seriously????
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/200#post_3471353
Unfortunately once rev Al got involved it was going to become political. Now the police chief, who by the way did nothing wrong, offered to fully resign and the city council is refusing it (good for them) based on not wanting outsiders deciding how their town is ran. I honestly think this is going to get a lot worse because I don't think they can make the charges stick. Wouldn't want to live down there.
One of the salespeople where I work lives in that town. She said it is insane....
 
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