"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon," said our president.

[mantisman51]

Fox News is reporting today that the 4 witnesses have changed their statements to say Zimmerman was the aggressor. So it looks like public pressure got to them, or the black panthers. I wish the black panthers would come to Arizona and try to intimidate me. They'd learn what stand your ground and only leave one witness to tell the tale is all about. This is what ticks me off about this whole lefty war against stand your ground. People can be threatened and intimidated and all you can do is hope you live and can call the police afterwards. It's why the mafia and other organized criminals can get away with extortion and protection rackets in states like New york, New Jersey and Massachusetts where they have "retreat first" laws.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/220#post_3475923
Fox News is reporting today that the 4 witnesses have changed their statements to say Zimmerman was the aggressor. So it looks like public pressure got to them, or the black panthers. I wish the black panthers would come to Arizona and try to intimidate me. They'd learn what stand your ground and only leave one witness to tell the tale is all about. This is what ticks me off about this whole lefty war against stand your ground. People can be threatened and intimidated and all you can do is hope you live and can call the police afterwards. It's why the mafia and other organized criminals can get away with extortion and protection rackets in states like New york, New Jersey and Massachusetts where they have "retreat first" laws.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent
Nice conspiracy theory. Maybe they reevaluated the situation, and what they perceived they saw, after the media firestorm subsided?
Tell us how you really feel Rambo.

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/220#post_3475925
Nice conspiracy theory. Maybe they reevaluated the situation, and what they perceived they saw, after the media firestorm subsided?
Tell us how you really feel Rambo.
It actually does sounds exactly like witness tampering

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/220#post_3475925
Nice conspiracy theory. Maybe they reevaluated the situation, and what they perceived they saw, after the media firestorm subsided?
Tell us how you really feel Rambo.
If you listen to the tapes of witnesses there is at least one I would say seems pretty strange. He went from "the guy was hitting him MMA style" to "I don't know, maybe he was just holding him for the police". Not only does the physical evidence support the original claim how do you go from MMA style punches to maybe he was just holding him?
Now it could just be the biased way the media presented the case rather than someone threatening the guy but that hardly sounds like reevaluating the events. Of the 4 that changed I would say one seemed like someone who flat changed their story out of fear or whatever, one seemed like a perfectly reasonable reevaluation of what they saw and two I dunno. None of it matters because there are other witnesses who still say it was Martin issuing the beatdown.
I still say unless they have an eye witness that saw Zimmerman relocate and approach Martin this case is a loser for the prosecution.

 

[mantisman51]

I think a jury will be intimidated just like these witnesses. I think there's a 80% he'll be convicted out of fear and an 80% the conviction will be tossed on appeal. Some folks think going fetal will help, others think being a man is more important. There's a reason that organized crime is almost non-existent in the Western states. Most of us don't think testosterone deficiency is a virtue and cowardice praiseworthy. Criminals need to fear the law-abiding, but that just doesn't fit with the masculine-challenged liberal view of the world.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/240#post_3475934
I think a jury will be intimidated just like these witnesses. I think there's a 80% he'll be convicted out of fear and an 80% the conviction will be tossed on appeal. Some folks think going fetal will help, others think being a man is more important. There's a reason that organized crime is almost non-existent in the Western states. Most of us don't think testosterone deficiency is a virtue and cowardice praiseworthy. Criminals need to fear the law-abiding, but that just doesn't fit with the masculine-challenged liberal view of the world.
I don't think you could fin 12 spineless people who would convict him of 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter MAYBE.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/220#post_3475891
Grave Robber
So with all the new evidence that has come out has anyone changed their opinion on where this case is headed?
What is messed up is that the witness who actually saw the fight occurring, was out there with the story from the beginning.
So far, no evidence to say if Trayvon was being followed, or who instigated the fight. The prosecution does not seem to have the evidence needed to support the race hate allegations.
One thing seems clear, Zim was getting beat up, until he pulled his gun on Trayvon.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/240#post_3475930
If you listen to the tapes of witnesses there is at least one I would say seems pretty strange. He went from "the guy was hitting him MMA style" to "I don't know, maybe he was just holding him for the police". Not only does the physical evidence support the original claim how do you go from MMA style punches to maybe he was just holding him?
Now it could just be the biased way the media presented the case rather than someone threatening the guy but that hardly sounds like reevaluating the events. Of the 4 that changed I would say one seemed like someone who flat changed their story out of fear or whatever, one seemed like a perfectly reasonable reevaluation of what they saw and two I dunno. None of it matters because there are other witnesses who still say it was Martin issuing the beatdown.
I still say unless they have an eye witness that saw Zimmerman relocate and approach Martin this case is a loser for the prosecution.
It's more like they didn't get any decent offers from TMZ, Bill O'Reilly, Rachel Maddow, or Anderson Cooper for their side of the story. That, or they they're thinking the opposite, and they don't want the media attention or having to worry about getting stuck sitting through a trial being called in as a witness.
All the evidence is circumstantial. Unfortunately, only one of the two victims/assailants are alive to tell their side of the story. The prosecution may try to go after Zimmerman on the basis they he defied the 911 Operator's directive to stay in his vehicle until the police arrived. Based on the article regarding carrying the gun because of the pit bull, he also appears to have violated the HOA rules about carrying the weapon while on his little "Night Watch" duty. Either case, I don't see the guy getting more than 6 months even if they do find a way to convict him.
His life is hosed anyways, just like that Casey Anthony. He might as well pack up and leave Florida. No one will want to hire him, and he'll have to constantly look over his shoulder wondering if there's a "Remember Treyvon" loyalist ready to use the "Stand Your Ground" law on him - "Sorry officer. I noticed the Zimmerman guy and confronted him and told him what I thought about being a cold-hearted murderer. He took offense to my comment, and I saw him reach towards his belt about to pull out his gun. I had no choice but to defend myself, so I pulled my weapon out and shot him." Ooops.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/240#post_3475937
The prosecution may try to go after Zimmerman on the basis they he defied the 911 Operator's directive to stay in his vehicle until the police arrived.
This never happened. The dispatcher never gave him a directive to stay in his vehicle. The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Trayvon, Zimmerman said, "yes", and the dispatcher said, "we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman responded, "Ok."
The dispatcher did ask Zimmerman for directions. Zimmerman claims he left his car to see if he could see a house number. to give to the dispatcher.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/240#post_3475939
This never happened. The dispatcher never gave him a directive to stay in his vehicle. The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Trayvon, Zimmerman said, "yes", and the dispatcher said, "we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman responded, "Ok."
The dispatcher did ask Zimmerman for directions. Zimmerman claims he left his car to see if he could see a house number. to give to the dispatcher.
And, AND Even if the dispatcher had told him to stay in his car Zimmerman would be under no obligation to do so. 9-11 dispatchers in Florida are not sworn law officers and have no authority. Had Zimmerman been the victim in the suit that could have been used against him if he were for instance suing Martin for assault but it wouldn't be a issue in a criminal case.

 

[darthtang aw]

This never happened.  The dispatcher never gave him a directive to stay in his vehicle.  The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Trayvon, Zimmerman said, "yes", and the dispatcher said, "we don't need you to do that."  Zimmerman responded, "Ok."
The dispatcher did ask Zimmerman for directions.  Zimmerman claims he left his car to see if he could see a house number. to give to the dispatcher.
Pssst...Bionic rarely uses actual facts. No need to correct him. He wont care anyway.
Darth (The time saver) Tang

 

[njbillyv]

Isn't it refreshing living in a post-racial society!

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president#post_3466953
However, there seems more to this story then what is being generally reported. One thing that is not being generally reported is that an eye witness says that he saw what happened, and that the one screaming "help me" on the 911 tape is Zimmerman, not Trayvon. Further, the eye-witness says that Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating on him.
Well, a year ago I started this topic with this information.
Yesterday, Jonathan Good, the only witness who actually seems to have gotten a clear view of the events, solidified his original statements under oath in court. He said he was 15-20 ft away from the altercation. He identified that Martin was straddling Zimmerman on the ground in what looked to him like a MMA maneuver, and that Zimmerman (on the ground) was yelling for help.
I'd say that Good is the defense's star witness, though he appeared as a prosecution witness! LOL Police officer's testimony backed up what Good said about Zimmerman yelling for help by testifying that Zimmerman told him he was yelling for help but no one helped. Police also gave evidence that indicated Zimmerman had been on the ground with his back against the wet grass.
Compare Good's reliable, consistent statements to the prosecution's lead witness, R. Jeantel, the woman who was on the phone with Trayvon when the incident occurred. In my way of thinking, this witness is all over the place with what she says. Vast inconsistencies or outright lies.
I was in a 2nd degree murder trail last year, where the jury actually had the option to go with 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. I wonder if this jury can do the same.
Honestly, given all the evidence so far, unless someone is put on the stand that is a reliable witness who says Zimmerman initiated the altercation, I'd acquit.

 

[deejeff442]

i am with you on this. its just about the race card.pretty sad

 

[mantisman51]

Yeah, it's looking like there'll be an acquital. But I have learned not to underestimate "black rage"(to use Al Sharpton's phrase). I think everyone but the black jurors vote to acquit and the blacks vote guilty, regardless of the evidence and we get a mistrial. But, remember, Eric Holder said last year if charges weren't brought or he was acquitted, he would go after Zman on civil rights and hate crime charges. So even if he's acquitted, it's far from over.

 

[beth]

Well, this is fairly racially charged. However, in the trail I was involved in last year, there were 12 jurors, and 4 African-Ams on the jury. The defendant was a young black man (student at local Jr. College) charged with the murder. No one on that jury felt the guy was innocent, and the single black man on jury said he was guilty from the get-go. In the end, we voted 2nd degree murder.
I saw an interview with Treyvon's stepmom. She said that right out that she didn't think that what happened to Treyvon was racially motivated by Zimmerman. While she couldn't't face that there was not going to be consequences for Martin's killing, she nearly implied that the Trayvon's clothes (dark hoody) was the culprit for Zimmerman "profiling" Treyvon.

 

[reefraff]

At this point even if Zimmerman started the altercation if they took manslaughter off the table I wouldn't vote to convict of second degree murder. This is going to be a mess. Even with the judge attempting to tip the scales (IMHO) I don't think they'll ever get a conviction. What they should have done was charge with manslaughter and pled it down to wreckless endangerment. Give the guy 90 days. It would have been better for him in the long run and would prevent what I think is going to happen if he's found not guilty.

 

[beth]

I haven't watched anything on TV. What has the judge been doing to tip the scales?
I agree that manslaughter would have been the fairer charge.

 

[ironeagle2006]

The DA is in Huge Trouble right now. His so called Star Witness admitted under Oath that she can not READ or Write Cursive and she was supposed to have sent a letter Written in Cursive to the POLICE in that. She changed her story more often than I have to change my babies Diaper. Then they had another witness state the Person wearing the Hoodie was ON TOP PUNCHING the other Person. Right now the DA is downing Maylox by they gallon at night and going I need a miracle. The Judge has tried to help but has to watch it or it will lead to grounds for a Mistrial. Meantime the Defense is kicking butt and taking names and the Jessie has bigger issues like his Son in the Federal Pen and Rev Al well he is to busy trying to avoid his own issues.
If the Black Panthers tried to get to him they would and should be branded a Terrorist Group.

 

[mantisman51]

What has surprised me is how even with the prosecution witnesses, Zman has come across as a guy who took quite a beating before drawing and firing his pistol. So the only question so far is if he started the confrontation. And that cannot be answered by anyone but one of two people involved. Ergo, no proof beyond a reasonable doubt for reckless homicide, let alone muder. If it was not being pimped by the media as "another black kid killed by racist whitey", this would have been dropped months ago.