"If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon," said our president.
- Thread starter beth
- Start date
The way I understood it was that the jury can decide that there is not evidence for say murder 2, but that there is evidence for manslaughter. The jury is given detailed instructions about what the criteria is for each. The jury can not decide for a greater charge. Say guilty of murder 1 in a 2nd degree murder case.
Believe me, I was surprised as the prosecutor put on a murder case, no mention of manslaughter; however manslaughter was an option of the jury.
Believe me, I was surprised as the prosecutor put on a murder case, no mention of manslaughter; however manslaughter was an option of the jury.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/260#post_3525101
The way I understood it was that the jury can decide that there is not evidence for say murder 2, but that there is evidence for manslaughter. The jury is given detailed instructions about what the criteria is for each. The jury can not decide for a greater charge. Say guilty of murder 1 in a 2nd degree murder case.
Believe me, I was surprised as the prosecutor put on a murder case, no mention of manslaughter; however manslaughter was an option of the jury.
That's what happens when you don't stay at a Holiday Inn.
from ABC..."To prove second-degree murder, prosecutors must prove that Zimmerman was filled with ill-will, hatred or spite," said criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh, who has no connection to the case. "Jurors can consider a lesser charge of manslaughter if they think what Zimmerman did was unlawful but didn't contain those necessary elements."
Either way you look at it this mans life as he knows it is long gone. Just like Casey Anthony.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/260#post_3525101
The way I understood it was that the jury can decide that there is not evidence for say murder 2, but that there is evidence for manslaughter. The jury is given detailed instructions about what the criteria is for each. The jury can not decide for a greater charge. Say guilty of murder 1 in a 2nd degree murder case.
Believe me, I was surprised as the prosecutor put on a murder case, no mention of manslaughter; however manslaughter was an option of the jury.
That's what happens when you don't stay at a Holiday Inn.
from ABC..."To prove second-degree murder, prosecutors must prove that Zimmerman was filled with ill-will, hatred or spite," said criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh, who has no connection to the case. "Jurors can consider a lesser charge of manslaughter if they think what Zimmerman did was unlawful but didn't contain those necessary elements."
Either way you look at it this mans life as he knows it is long gone. Just like Casey Anthony.
mantisman51
Active Member
As I posted yesterday, even if he is acquitted in the state trial, Eric Holder said last year that he will try him on Federal civil rights, hate crime and murder charges. He will not walk away from this without serving serious prison time. Holder will move the trial to D.C., Atlanta or Chicago where he can load the jury with inner city blacks(the defense has far less ability to remove jurors in the Federal system) and simply play the race card. Cynical on my part? Maybe, but more like realistic. And I can see this state trial ending in a hung jury and Zman going through this ringer for years to come. The system is rigged against him. When the race pimps get involved, it's a different world. Cimmon sense and right and wrong are turned upside down.
My feeling is that if he is acquitted, the Obama Adm. will quietly disappear on the issue, and even if he gets guilty on lesser crime, the administration is not going to pick this up. Too much evidence against the hate crime allegation. Too much support of Zimmerman. And lets not forget about mid-term elections a few short mos away.
The admin has too many other concerns right now to be pumping a racially charged agenda. 2012 elections are over. As it turns out, Zim is Hispanic (the largest minority voting block).
The admin has too many other concerns right now to be pumping a racially charged agenda. 2012 elections are over. As it turns out, Zim is Hispanic (the largest minority voting block).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/280#post_3525181
They should have allowed a Grand Jury to dismiss this case.
Fla only requires grand jury on 1st degree murder cases. Zimmerman's own attorney was glad that the special prosecutor bypassed the grand jury, for whatever reason.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/280#post_3525181
They should have allowed a Grand Jury to dismiss this case.
Fla only requires grand jury on 1st degree murder cases. Zimmerman's own attorney was glad that the special prosecutor bypassed the grand jury, for whatever reason.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/280#post_3525179
My feeling is that if he is acquitted, the Obama Adm. will quietly disappear on the issue, and even if he gets guilty on lesser crime, the administration is not going to pick this up. Too much evidence against the hate crime allegation. Too much support of Zimmerman. And lets not forget about mid-term elections a few short mos away.
The admin has too many other concerns right now to be pumping a racially charged agenda. 2012 elections are over. As it turns out, Zim is Hispanic (the largest minority voting block).
Agree 100 percent here.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/280#post_3525179
My feeling is that if he is acquitted, the Obama Adm. will quietly disappear on the issue, and even if he gets guilty on lesser crime, the administration is not going to pick this up. Too much evidence against the hate crime allegation. Too much support of Zimmerman. And lets not forget about mid-term elections a few short mos away.
The admin has too many other concerns right now to be pumping a racially charged agenda. 2012 elections are over. As it turns out, Zim is Hispanic (the largest minority voting block).
Agree 100 percent here.
ironeagle2006
Active Member
The State of FL is looking like a bunch of Idiots and right about now when the State finishes their Case the Defense could ask for a Dismissal of the Charges saying they DID NOT MEET THE BURDEN OF PROOF. Meaning that the State had its chance and Blew it and there is nothing they can do anymore.
deejeff442
Active Member
just like OJ.although OJ did it.zmann was just defending his neighborhood
reefraff
Active Member
More interesting crap from the trial. Zimmerman's family were removed from the court the first day because they are on the witness list. Just heard today Martins mother who has been in court every day is expected to take the stand tomorrow. Why can't Zimmerman's family be in court because they are witnesses but Martin's can???
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/280#post_3525202
More interesting crap from the trial. Zimmerman's family were removed from the court the first day because they are on the witness list. Just heard today Martins mother who has been in court every day is expected to take the stand tomorrow. Why can't Zimmerman's family be in court because they are witnesses but Martin's can???
Are you sure?? No witness should be allowed in court until they are called to testify.
What is hilarious is all the back tracking the prosecution has to do to get the testimony of their own witnesses thrown out! LOL
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/391112/if-i-had-a-son-he-would-look-like-trayvon-said-our-president/280#post_3525202
More interesting crap from the trial. Zimmerman's family were removed from the court the first day because they are on the witness list. Just heard today Martins mother who has been in court every day is expected to take the stand tomorrow. Why can't Zimmerman's family be in court because they are witnesses but Martin's can???
Are you sure?? No witness should be allowed in court until they are called to testify.
What is hilarious is all the back tracking the prosecution has to do to get the testimony of their own witnesses thrown out! LOL
mantisman51
Active Member
I still think Zman bears some culpability in Matin's death. Reckless homocide fits the situation. He screwed up by overly pursuing someone he had no legitimate reason to suspect. Trayvon might well have genuinely have gone on the attack, fearing he was about to be attacked-he was being followed at night and after attempting to allude his pursuer, the pursuer got out of his vehicle to chase him I'm sure he thought. Zman caused the situation and needs to pay for that. Murder? No, but his reckless pursuit of (remember this fact) AN INNOCENT young man resulted in his death. I think 5-10 years would fit Zman's crime. And I firmly believe his recklessness reached a criminal level.
ironeagle2006
Active Member
Mantis you need to remember this Gated Complex had seen a spike in Robberies he was part of a Neighborhood watch in Zimmerman.
Put yourself in his Shoes you have a guy wearing Dark Clothes walking IN BETWEEN the buildings like Martin did that night not on the streets yes or no would you have followed him to see if he broke into someone's house. Then your on the way BACK to your truck and all the EVIDENCE shown in court is PROVING this that Zimmerman was heading back to his Truck when Martin jumps out of a bunch of Bushes and Attacked HIM not Zimmerman attacking Martin. Next thing we have seen from the Evidence Submitted to the Court is Martin is on top of Zimmerman doing a MMA Ground and Pound and smashing his head into a Sidewalk. Zimmerman is trying to scream for HELP no one comes out to help him and supposedly Martin says your going to DIE to him that is from the Interview and reenactment played to THE JURY. Zimmerman thinks Martin is going for his gun and makes the choice it is HIM over ME and shoots ONE ROUND at Martin hitting him in the Chest leading to Martin Dying. If that is not SELF DEFENSE I DO NOT WANT TO THINK WHAT IT REQUIRES IT TO BE IN YOUR HEAD.
Put yourself in his Shoes you have a guy wearing Dark Clothes walking IN BETWEEN the buildings like Martin did that night not on the streets yes or no would you have followed him to see if he broke into someone's house. Then your on the way BACK to your truck and all the EVIDENCE shown in court is PROVING this that Zimmerman was heading back to his Truck when Martin jumps out of a bunch of Bushes and Attacked HIM not Zimmerman attacking Martin. Next thing we have seen from the Evidence Submitted to the Court is Martin is on top of Zimmerman doing a MMA Ground and Pound and smashing his head into a Sidewalk. Zimmerman is trying to scream for HELP no one comes out to help him and supposedly Martin says your going to DIE to him that is from the Interview and reenactment played to THE JURY. Zimmerman thinks Martin is going for his gun and makes the choice it is HIM over ME and shoots ONE ROUND at Martin hitting him in the Chest leading to Martin Dying. If that is not SELF DEFENSE I DO NOT WANT TO THINK WHAT IT REQUIRES IT TO BE IN YOUR HEAD.
Actually, the map of the complex and the locations that Zim mapped shows that Treyvon was taking a direct route to his home. In fact, he was very near his home when the altercation took place. I would not categorize him slipping around buildings as if he's trying to sneak around. He took a sidewalk turn that led between the backyards of buildings on either side. That same sidewalk is where Zim says Treyvon bashed his head.
Its just my opinion, but I do think Zim was following him, but not for the purpose of a confrontation.
Its just my opinion, but I do think Zim was following him, but not for the purpose of a confrontation.
mantisman51
Active Member
I won't dispute anything you wrote IE. But, Zman put himself and Martin in the position of having the confrontation. I agree that being followed is not justification for assault. However, put yourself in Trayvon's shoes for a moment. You are innocently walking to the store and some guy follows you and when you hide, he gets out of his truck to find you. It then becomes fight or flight in your mind. And if I thought a guy with a gun was after me, I would probably do the same thing. And, having been the victim of an attack like this can assure you, you absolutely want to disable the aggressor and get his weapon. I think Trayvon was justified in wanting to end the threat. I also thinkZmam was justified in defending himself at that point. But Zman put them both in that position and needs to pay for that reckless behavior.