Luvmyreef's 180g Diary

[luvmyreef]

Once the clowns are settled into the 20g, I am gonna turn their 10g into a frag tank, and start fragging the corals I have in this tank. Once they start growing good, with no signs of dino, I will place them into the 20g. That way I can save some coral to start anew. That's why I am rushing to complete the 20g. On a side note, the sand I had replaced is still white with no sign of the algae that is all over the other sand. It's been almost 5 days since I changed out that section, which makes me wonder if my theory isn't correct about the diatoms. But, it is still too early to tell I think. I'm taking the 75g outside to bleach the he## out of it today and scrub scrub scrub...UGH!!

 

[luvmyreef]

Goodness guys, this is depressing!! Wonder if I could clean out the 180, and put everything into totes temporarily. Scrub/bleach, etc the 180, and set it back up with all new sand, rock, etc. And bleach all equipment??? I really dont want to down grade to this damn dinky 75!!!

 

[meowzer]

why not try it? it will be a heck of a job...BUT...surely worth it in the end

 

[luvmyreef]

Well, thats what I am thinking, but my husband is telling me to contact other places to see if there is a better way to treat this. I haven't found any sure fire way to kill dinos in an aquarium. I think he is looking at how much work it would be to do what I want. But I could also go ahead and drill this tank for a 40g sump too. I never wanted one, but it might be a good thing. I could also remove everything, and treat the tank heavily, empty it, refill it with water, new rock and new sand, and coral frags...... I just dont know. I have such a headache right now.

 

[luvmyreef]

Ok, I have talked to someone at live aquaria. I have everything recommended covered except for nutrients. We basically came to the conclusion that I need to change out my sand bed, feed every other day, and turn down my light cycle. The sand could very well be what's causing the high nutrient levels that is feeding this algae on the sand, and the dinos. Right now, the dinos I had yesterday(that I had manually removed), are not back. That's a good thing. Bad thing is that my nitrates are 20-30. I am considering vodka dosing to help this. So, I ordered 100lbs of figi pink sand that will arrive within 5 days. I will try this and possibly the vodka dosing. This is this tanks last chance!! For real!! I don't want another full time job like this has turned out to be lol. I am only doing this because my husband is so insistent!! So.....I need help about vodka dosing. How much, etc.

 

[luvmyreef]

So, am I correct to buy 80 proof vodka. Dose .1ml per 25g for the first 3 days, then .2ml, then add .5ml each week thereafter until nitrates drop??? then cont that dose as a maintenance dose and monitor nitrates and phos closely? I have read several articles so far... Gonna go buy some. It can only help my situation. If it helps to save this tank, I will be so relieved.

 

[luvmyreef]

So, I will change out the rest of the sand first to remove any decaying organic matter under the rocks and to remove the dry marine sand that could be contributing to this problem. In the meantime, I am cutting back my lighting schedule to only 7hrs actinics, and 4hrs of metal halides. No moon lights, just the fuge light at night. Monitor the situation, test everything, and if all else fails, I will try the vodka dosing to help reduce nitrates, and nutrients. If the problem algae is eliminated with this method, I will slowly wean off the vodka dosing eventually to allow my other biological bacteria to kick back in. I know the risks involved and I am thinking the benefits outweigh them at this point in the game. Any comments?

 

[siptang]

if you're going to do carbon dozing instead of vodka try vinegar. not as harsh as vodka in case something goes wrong.

 

[luvmyreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siptang http:///t/378946/luvmyreefs-180g-diary/820#post_3495536
if you're going to do carbon dozing instead of vodka try vinegar. not as harsh as vodka in case something goes wrong.
Well, I have read about that. But honestly, after researching it, I would rather dose vodka. Following the directions accurately though. BUT, I am only going to try this if the other things do not work. I need to starve it into oblivion. Then I can feed my corals and watch them thrive!! Vodka might be the key.... I think Spanko vodka doses, I have read the thread he started.... I will be ordering brightwells MB7, some coral amino, and extra fine filter pads if I decide to start dosing.

 

[luvmyreef]

Although I have just read that dinos can sometimes feed off the vodka and get worse. Geesh!!

 

[luvmyreef]

Ok, so after researching I have to admit my dino problem is not nearly as bad as some people's. I tend to get very small (size of a pencil eraser) dots in certain places on the rocks, which I siphon out. Could be worse. I wanted to share the info I have so far for anyone who may experience dinoflagellates. There are different methods to treat this due to the fact that there are several varieties of dinos out there. It is slimy looking, and can range from tan/clear to green, and tends to trap air bubbles in it. It will grow in long strands that tend to grow towards your water surface. Many people have had this problem in the past, and it has run its course and disappears. There are some definite DO'S and DONT'S for treating an outbreak.
DO
[list type=decimal]
[*]
Keep PH elevated above 8.4, use kalw. if necessary. (This has helped with some forms of dinos, not all)
[*]
Run Activated Carbon and a Phos Remover (They feed off nitrates, phos, silicates, and trace elements)
[*]
Reduce Nutrients (Don't feed corals during the outbreak, and reduce your feeding of fish)
[*]
Turn off your lights for 72hrs. Then reduce your light schedule.
[*]
Manual removal.
[*]
Step up water changes. 10% weekly or more. (THIS IS DEBATABLE)
Do, run a skimmer (helps pull out organics/food)
Replace all RO/DI membrane and filters
Keep temps constant, try to avoid temp swings
DO NOT
Do not use chemi clean. (it kills bacteria that competes for food)
Do not use Reef Crystals or dose your tank with extra trace elements duriing an outbreak!! (It has the extra trace elements that dinos love, and will make them grow!!)
Do not do any water changes. ( It will add more food for the dinos) (this is also debatable)
[/list type=decimal]
There is another way that people have been treating dinos in the tank. There are threads everywhere on the use of hydrogen peroxide. BEWARE this is dangerous to your coral. If this is something you are willing to do, then google it, for I will not give you the specifics about the actual dose here. HYDROGEN PEROXIDE is only/or just more effective on the dinos that are in the water column usually when the lights are out. The free swimmers.
So, I hope no one ever has to deal with this, but unfortunately it is becoming more prevalent in our enclosed systems. It has lead many hobbyist to tear down their tanks, including myself. Hope this info helps anyone in need of it.

 

[luvmyreef]

Ok, so I took a couple pics this am with the lights out.

 

[luvmyreef]

Ok, did another 5% water change today, and siphoned all the rock I could reach. I also siphoned the top of the sand that I hadn't replaced yet. I really had to, it was a nasty looking brownish orange blanket. Truly, it is probably dino too. It even had air bubbles in it in places. There's a clue!! I can't believe I am still doing this, it is taking alot of self coaxing lol. All thanks to my hubby. I don't think he wants to move the heavy tank around for me. But, from the pics I saw on line, my problem is very minimal in comparison, but they are there and need to be dealt with. I must be doing a decent job or they would have already overtaken my tank like i see in the pics on line. My coral is still gaining color, the setosa frag is holding its own as well as the mother colony for now. I do need to probably start dosing kalw. to keep my ph up at night. Even with the refugium light on at night, ph drops to 7.8. Need to bump it up. Prob. due the drip method.

 

[acrylic51]

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmyreef http:///t/378946/luvmyreefs-180g-diary/820#post_3495568
Ok, so after researching I have to admit my dino problem is not nearly as bad as some people's. I tend to get very small (size of a pencil eraser) dots in certain places on the rocks, which I siphon out. Could be worse. I wanted to share the info I have so far for anyone who may experience dinoflagellates. There are different methods to treat this due to the fact that there are several varieties of dinos out there. It is slimy looking, and can range from tan/clear to green, and tends to trap air bubbles in it. It will grow in long strands that tend to grow towards your water surface. Many people have had this problem in the past, and it has run its course and disappears. There are some definite DO'S and DONT'S for treating an outbreak.
DO
[list type=decimal]
[*]
Keep PH elevated above 8.4, use kalw. if necessary. (This has helped with some forms of dinos, not all)
[*]
Run Activated Carbon and a Phos Remover (They feed off nitrates, phos, silicates, and trace elements)
[*]
Reduce Nutrients (Don't feed corals during the outbreak, and reduce your feeding of fish)
[*]
Turn off your lights for 72hrs. Then reduce your light schedule.
[*]
Manual removal.
[*]
Step up water changes. 10% weekly or more. (THIS IS DEBATABLE)
Do, run a skimmer (helps pull out organics/food)
Replace all RO/DI membrane and filters
DO NOT
Do not use chemi clean. (it kills bacteria that competes for food)
Do not use Reef Crystals (It has the extra trace elements that dinos love)
Do not do any water changes. ( It will add more food for the dinos) (this is also debatable)
[/list type=decimal]
There is another way that people have been treating dinos in the tank. There are threads everywhere on the use of hydrogen peroxide. BEWARE this is dangerous to your coral. If this is something you are willing to do, then google it, for I will not give you the specifics about the actual dose here. HYDROGEN PEROXIDE is only effective on the dinos that are in the water column usually when the lights are out.
So, I hope no one ever has to deal with this, but unfortunately it is becoming more prevalent in our enclosed systems. It has lead many hobbyist to tear down their tanks, including myself. Hope this info helps anyone in need of it.
Both the statements I highlighted in red, IMHO are incorrect.....There is no evidence of Reef Crystals exaggerating a dino issue.....Pure speculation, and we all know salt batches can vary over the scale. As far as Hydrogen Peroxide.....It can be used and has been used to spot treat selected areas, and to say that it's only effective in the water column is the issue IMHO....The peroxide is not suppose to be dumped or "dosed" per say in the tank.

 

[acrylic51]

Did you make it to the swap Saturday......

 

[luvmyreef]

NO, unfortunately I did not go due to the issue with this tank. Bummer!! As far as your above responses, this is the info that I have found on line, and just summed it up. BUT, I can personally attest to the use of reef crystals. It does make matters worse in my tank and several other peoples as well. Regular IO does not. Reef crystals has the extra trace elements that my kind of dino thrive on. So, the more water changes I did the worse they got! Read a whole lot on wet web. But there are different forms of the dino. Some people have luck with just upping the ph and alk. while others do not. Unless you have or know someone with a microscope to properly ID it, you will have to try all above methods. Also, a biologist, not sure exactly where I read this I think on the big RC thread, really not sure, that dinos are more susceptible to the peroxide while they are in the water column. I have read so much, taken notes, etc. Also, the actual method is to dose a system so many ml per 10 gallons. You can spot treat, but usually they are too widespread. I could see this working on frags though. And since I have been a guinea pig, I will admit to dosing my tank and that was effective for me until now. This stuff is tricky to be sure.

 

[acrylic51]

I would never dose the hydrogen peroxide period......Wet web I don't put much faith in......What authors or concrete evidence and studies have been done proving Reef Crystals is the culprit.....It again peaks my interest because we go through the hoopla about which salt brand is better and gives best/ideal numbers.....And as we all can conclude there isn't such a salt or potion, that's why I'm highly skeptical that it's the salt in general and not other contributing factors coming into play......

 

[acrylic51]

Ok......I'm still a bit confused on the Reef Crystals....If it's purely the salt causing Dino issues, why isn't everyone using the salt having issues.....That's why I question or debate that there's not other things playing into the equation.......

 

[luvmyreef]

Oh, I see where it might be confusing. I mean that it makes the dinos worse. Not that it causes them lol. The dinos feed off of trace elements, and to use a salt that adds extra trace elements makes it much worse, and some argue that any water changes makes it worse because of new available food for the dino. Hence the argument about doing water changes or not. Atleast it did make mine worse and a few other cases I read about. Maybe I should edit the post to read not to use reef crystals during an outbreak?? Oh lol, btw never say never.

 

[acrylic51]

I mean I'd never dose the peroxide into the system.....I like things a bit "controlled" and dosing that stuff isn't "controlled" by my definition.....If were talking Kalk or something of that nature that's a different story.