Might need to rethink that cruel and unusual punishment thing

[ibanez]

What a terrible thing. I think that responsibility falls on the sick individuals who did this and they should never see the outside of a prison again. I also think the parents should be investigated and dealt with because if they were ignorant enough to miss the warning signs under their own roof, and make attempts to fix these problems before they got to this point, they deserve to share the punishment since they could have helped to avoid it. After an investigation, they may determine that the parents were not at fault, but I highly doubt it. I am all for removal of their manhood since they won't need it in jail.

 

[scottnlisa]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3254758
The only study that needs to me made is how many blows to the head with a baseball bat it takes to crack their skulls like a walnut. I'd televise said study. I am so over the whole "little Johnny or janey is a screwup because_________" thing as an excuse for unacceptable behavior. This is what it leads to. There is a special place in hell waiting for people like that.
I expected that type of answer from you. Abuse and sexual abuse from parents, step parents, or from anybody seems to be the factors that contribute to the way the child acts throughout his/her life. Like it or not, it is FACT. Great trauma causes chemical inbalances and lobes of the brain to act differently. Tumors cause a small factor in this also.
Doctors are right now doing studies on brain patterns to try to understand at younger ages the difference between a brain of an abused (sexual or physical) child and a child that is not abused. There is a significant difference in the lobes of the brain.
People who don't understand things like science and the medical field usually say "The only study that needs to me made is how many blows to the head with a baseball bat it takes to crack their skulls like a walnut." is not the answer to the problem. First of all, how mature. Secondly, if the medical field can narrow down and start seeing unusual brain waves and patterns acts like this may be prevented before they happen.

 

[cranberry]

I don't think we'll ever be able to use the information to prevent such things. It would be next to impossible to scan everyone. Sure, it helps us to understand things in retrospect, but I don't think it's useful enough to prevent anything.
I shape preemies personalities by the amount of discomfort I cause them in the NICU. I'm studying pain and how it affects the actual personality of a person for life.... like I didn't already feel bad enough.

 

[ibanez]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3254771
I
I shape preemies personalities by the amount of discomfort I cause them in the NICU. I'm studying pain and how it affects the actual personality of a person for life.... like I didn't already feel bad enough.
What kind of discomfort? I am not understanding this statement. It is your job to shape preemies personalities? I am not judging simply asking.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3254762
I expected that type of answer from you. Abuse and sexual abuse from parents, step parents, or from anybody seems to be the factors that contribute to the way the child acts throughout his/her life. Like it or not, it is FACT. Great trauma causes chemical inbalances and lobes of the brain to act differently. Tumors cause a small factor in this also.
Doctors are right now doing studies on brain patterns to try to understand at younger ages the difference between a brain of an abused (sexual or physical) child and a child that is not abused. There is a significant difference in the lobes of the brain.
People who don't understand things like science and the medical field usually say "The only study that needs to me made is how many blows to the head with a baseball bat it takes to crack their skulls like a walnut." is not the answer to the problem. First of all, how mature. Secondly, if the medical field can narrow down and start seeing unusual brain waves and patterns acts like this may be prevented before they happen.
Where does it say the parents where involved in any kind of abuse? Seeing as how the 7 year old is still in their custody I doubt there is any evidence to support that theory.
I pray god I am mistaken but I seem to remember you being a school teacher. Chilling thought.

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by IbanEz
http:///forum/post/3254777
What kind of discomfort? I am not understanding this statement. It is your job to shape preemies personalities? I am not judging simply asking.

Pain.... that's what I mean by discomfort. Heal sticks, adjusting Nasal CPap Prongs, IV starts, removing tape... etc etc. The studies are now showing the more pain we cause them during this period, the more likely they are to have "personality disorders".
No, it is not my job to do this.... but an undesirable side effect of doing my job, to put it mildly. The reason I am studying this is to better understand and prevent it and pass better practices down to my nurses.

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3254778
Where does it say the parents where involved in any kind of abuse? Seeing as how the 7 year old is still in their custody I doubt there is any evidence to support that theory.
She actually didn't pin point the parents..... "parents, step parents, or from anybody". There is no question of abuse here.... just how many, for how long and by who.

 

[ibanez]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3254779
Pain.... that's what I mean by discomfort. Heal sticks, adjusting Nasal CPap Prongs, IV starts, removing tape... etc etc. The studies are now showing the more pain we cause them during this period, the more likely they are to have "personality disorders".
No, it is not my job to do this.... but an undesirable side effect of doing my job, to put it mildly. The reason I am studying this is to better understand and prevent it and pass better practices down to my nurses.
That is excellent, I didn't think I was understanding the message you were relaying. Yes, the world that a preemie enters is far from a nurturing womb, but unfortunately that is their only hope right now. Better to have life with some problems than no life at all.

 

[ibanez]

What do you do for a living bat man, are you a prison guard? IMO, children are brought into this world innocent and are corrupted by the outside world. No person is uncorrupted, the variable is about levels of corruptible forces allowed around them. If a child grows up watching horror movies, they will most likely act out as a result of that. They did not have a choice to watch it, they learn from what is in front of them. In other words, they have no conscience. Their conscience is shaped by what their parents have instilled in them. This girl obviously had no conscience. I say, the parents failed. Exceptions to this, are serious mental disorders. At what point is a person responsible for a serious mental disorder that was out of their control? So what is it? Did the parents fail to instill a conscience in this young minor who was in their custody but able to go and do as she pleases? Or was the girl so smart she was able to trick her parents and thought there would be no repercussions to this terrible act? If she thought she was going to get away with it, she must really have a serious mental disorder.

 

[scottnlisa]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3254784
She actually didn't pin point the parents..... "parents, step parents, or from anybody". There is no question of abuse here.... just how many, for how long and by who.
As of right now there is no reports of abuse. How much abuse in this country goes unnoticed? There has to be a factor in the kids lives or even a biological (chemical factor) to cause them to do this.

 

[scottnlisa]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3254778
Where does it say the parents where involved in any kind of abuse? Seeing as how the 7 year old is still in their custody I doubt there is any evidence to support that theory.
I pray god I am mistaken but I seem to remember you being a school teacher. Chilling thought.
Between the words pray and god maybe you want to stick the work "to". Your choice.

 

[scottnlisa]

Originally Posted by IbanEz
http:///forum/post/3254790
What do you do for a living bat man, are you a prison guard? IMO, children are brought into this world innocent and are corrupted by the outside world. No person is uncorrupted, the variable is about levels of corruptible forces allowed around them. If a child grows up watching horror movies, they will most likely act out as a result of that. They did not have a choice to watch it, they learn from what is in front of them. In other words, they have no conscience. Their conscience is shaped by what their parents have instilled in them. This girl obviously had no conscience. I say, the parents failed. Exceptions to this, are serious mental disorders. At what point is a person responsible for a serious mental disorder that was out of their control? So what is it? Did the parents fail to instill a conscience in this young minor who was in their custody but able to go and do as she pleases? Or was the girl so smart she was able to trick her parents and thought there would be no repercussions to this terrible act? If she thought she was going to get away with it, she must really have a serious mental disorder.
I agree that all children are born innocent. Maybe she does have a mental disorder? How does anybody know if they have a mental disorder? Nobody knows that they have a mental disorder till their S/S's get so bad or disrupting their life that they start to seek medical answers.

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by scottnlisa
http:///forum/post/3254796
As of right now there is no reports of abuse.
Heck ya there's abuse. There's no question. She's 15.... 15.... and grown men are at her. That's abuse, my friends.

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3254810
Heck ya there's abuse. There's no question. She's 15.... 15.... and grown men are at her. That's abuse, my friends.
YES...And also to add to that....the 15 year old has a history of prostitution amongst other things....IN THIS CASE....and IMO....she was severely lacking supervision by any type of responsible adult......AND also from the system....seems to me when a 15 year old repeatedly gets into this type of trouble (we're not talking stealing gum here) more action may be required from outside forces

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by IbanEz
http:///forum/post/3254790
What do you do for a living bat man, are you a prison guard? IMO, children are brought into this world innocent and are corrupted by the outside world. No person is uncorrupted, the variable is about levels of corruptible forces allowed around them. If a child grows up watching horror movies, they will most likely act out as a result of that. They did not have a choice to watch it, they learn from what is in front of them. In other words, they have no conscience. Their conscience is shaped by what their parents have instilled in them. This girl obviously had no conscience. I say, the parents failed. Exceptions to this, are serious mental disorders. At what point is a person responsible for a serious mental disorder that was out of their control? So what is it? Did the parents fail to instill a conscience in this young minor who was in their custody but able to go and do as she pleases? Or was the girl so smart she was able to trick her parents and thought there would be no repercussions to this terrible act? If she thought she was going to get away with it, she must really have a serious mental disorder.
Bat man, I LIKE IT!!
My rage is more reserved for the molesters than the girl but she should go away for a long time. They released more info on the guys, 20, 19 and 17 year olds serve no useful purpose breathing air. The 13 and 14 year old could have been coerced into it by the older one's so I would spare them the Louisville laydown.
I come from a family of 4. My oldest brother was a bit of a screw up in his youth but nothing too serious. Next brother in line was a total screw up but not much until he hit his early 20's. I was next then my sister and neither of us has had any issue worse than a traffic ticket. My wife comes from a family of 3 kids, she's the youngest. She and the oldest are model citizens their whole life, The middle child was a waste of skin.
If it's the parents fault how do you explain all of that? My parents didn't change anything they did from youngest to oldest, neither did the wife's. There were no mental issues in either case. We are all born with free will. I always say I don't have a lot of sympathy for the 'I was drunk defense" because is most cases you wont do anything drunk you wouldn't at least think about doing sober. I don't care how screwed up you childhood is, by 15 you know selling your little sister into prostitution in wrong.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3254779
Pain.... that's what I mean by discomfort. Heal sticks, adjusting Nasal CPap Prongs, IV starts, removing tape... etc etc. The studies are now showing the more pain we cause them during this period, the more likely they are to have "personality disorders".
No, it is not my job to do this.... but an undesirable side effect of doing my job, to put it mildly. The reason I am studying this is to better understand and prevent it and pass better practices down to my nurses.
I hope your superiors recognize the exra lengths you are going to take care of the little ones.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3254810
Heck ya there's abuse. There's no question. She's 15.... 15.... and grown men are at her. That's abuse, my friends.
A 15 year old doing it with a 20 year old isn't neccessarily abuse. Not saying it's right but I've seen some pretty worldly 14 and 15 year olds. I personally know someone who was a very involved parent who had to put his daughter on the pill at 15. He tried the open parent thing and she came to him and asked for it because she had become active, NOT WITH A 20 YEAR OLD but....

 

[cranberry]

She's 15 now and she's getting paid.... what are the odds that it was the first time.
And we're not talking 2 young kids.... we are talking about s.ex for money with grown men.

 

[ibanez]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3254814
Bat man, I LIKE IT!!
I come from a family of 4. My oldest brother was a bit of a screw up in his youth but nothing too serious. Next brother in line was a total screw up but not much until he hit his early 20's. I was next then my sister and neither of us has had any issue worse than a traffic ticket. My wife comes from a family of 3 kids, she's the youngest. She and the oldest are model citizens their whole life, The middle child was a waste of skin.
If it's the parents fault how do you explain all of that? My parents didn't change anything they did from youngest to oldest, neither did the wife's. There were no mental issues in either case. We are all born with free will. I always say I don't have a lot of sympathy for the 'I was drunk defense" because is most cases you wont do anything drunk you wouldn't at least think about doing sober. I don't care how screwed up you childhood is, by 15 you know selling your little sister into prostitution in wrong.
I am not saying this is the case, but it is possible that your wife's parents spent more time on the other two kids and neglected the other one. No one is perfect, and people change as they get older. I know personally, my parents let me do things, and watch things, that my brother who was seven years older than me, was not allowed to watch when he was my age. The system is degrading, things are getting worse, and the television has shocked our consciences nearly into non-existence. Have you ever simply thought about how many acts of violence the normal child has observed through the television, and commercials by the time they are 10 years old. How about how many s.ex acts they have witnessed. Have you every seen the programming for the cartoon network, (look up robot chicken) or the family channel. Our young ones don't hardly stand a snowballs chance in hell. This is the devils playground.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by IbanEz
http:///forum/post/3254830
I am not saying this is the case, but it is possible that your wife's parents spent more time on the other two kids and neglected the other one. No one is perfect, and people change as they get older. I know personally, my parents let me do things, and watch things, that my brother who was seven years older than me, was not allowed to watch when he was my age. The system is degrading, things are getting worse, and the television has shocked our consciences nearly into non-existence. Have you ever simply thought about how many acts of violence the normal child has observed through the television, and commercials by the time they are 10 years old. How about how many s.ex acts they have witnessed. Have you every seen the programming for the cartoon network, (look up robot chicken) or the family channel. Our young ones don't hardly stand a snowballs chance in hell. This is the devils playground.
The screwup in the wife's family was the middle kid. Heck as the youngest my wife still tells about not being able to watch Dark Shadows, her parents weren't overly stict but they did stick to their standards. In my case my dad was a drunk and it did nothing but get worse. In theory it should have been the older 2 that turned out better, he was a lot more normal when they were little. I just don't buy that you can lay blame on parents every time. Ill manners and lack of responsibility I can buy (at least until the kid is grown) more than this type of behavior.