Neptunes 125 Reef Diary.

king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by novahobbies
http:///forum/post/2949341
It'll also populate the foam. Same principle, my friend: bacteria don't really care were they live, just as long as they find a good spot to eat, poop, and divide (so to speak). I have a LFS down here who made his main display "rock" almost entirely out of foam, with only some big pieces of LR at the base to weight it down. It's beautiful. Completely covered in coralline growth, and the foam is indistinguishable from the original LR.
As for the tufa, I love it, personally. I can buy dry lightweight pieces for $1.99/lb and get twice the physical volume of rock for the same weight. I used it for my 110g display with some seed live rock, and it colored up very well. It's not true coralline yet, but it's getting there!
Can't wait to see your tank build pics when you get going on the freshwater test. Keep it up!
Cool. Nice to know it will populate the foam as well.
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2949480
how are things coming along? got any new pics?
I haven't been home last couple days. I went to my dads last night and used the drill press to drill all the rock. Broke a lot of pieces.
*Don't think just because you have it 90% drilled its OK to push through...the last 10% is the most delicate, and needs the most care, go evin lighter on the last part.*
I got a 72inch PFO light coming in from Oregon in 2 weeks. It is PFOs professional brand with the parabolic reflectors and deeper hood. The hood contains 3x 250 watt metal halide fixtures, 2 6ft VHO fixtures, and remote electronic ballasts. The hood is black and has two fans, one at each end for cooling, and there is a protective lens covering to protect the bulbs. $500 w/3 mo old bulbs...yes (I will probably replace them w/in 6 mo just to be safe)
The tank is in the garage hasnt bowed yet. Ill still keep an eye on it. The sump still has water flowing though it via my 400GPH pump. I still need to drain it and cut the glass panel out to replace with a lower one.
I'm definitely re-considering the return pump. I will do 650-850 on the fuge side(this is for the scrubber, it needs one or the other depending if I'm using a 12 or 18" scrubber). And the Skimmer side will have ____GPH I havent decided yet.
The nice thing about my drain is I have the Flow valves so I can adjust up to 1300GPH each. I can divert the skimmer side to a peak of 2600GPH with 0GPH on the fuge side, or cap the fuge side at 1300GPH and 1300SKimmer. Or any combo in between down to 0GPH each.
Its simply a matter of choosing a pump that will feed both sides at peek. I think most skimmers need around 600GPH if I remember correctly.

Id like some input on this please.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Alright, I'll bite.

Melevs info is good info, however a lot of it is generally opinion and much left to actual speculation. As is my opinion here...I personally believe what you want is for the water to be gentle enough to allow particulates to at least somewhat fall out(or better yet, be collected by a LRR section before entering) then move through the fuge so as to actually move through the macros. This is the slit I place in the fuge pre baffles. It causes the water to actually move up and through the macros. This allows more water to actually contact the algae, trapping particulates and drawing in DOCs. With a compartment that does not have this the tendency is more for the water to move along the surface of the water. You can see that there's not much water dwelling in the fuge this way, it tends to want to move right through, sure some will mix, but the majority just moves right through. A slower flow rate through this allows for more mixing as --- moves through, but overall less turnover through it. With higher flow rate and the "slit" in the baffles the water moves directly through the macros and because it is faced with a baffle wall at the other end it rolls and mixes...constantly. This IMO, allows for better saturation. Now, many many people have had issues with flow rates of 600gph through 1 in baffles. The reason is the tendency is for the micros to be swept through the narrow space between them. I prefer to leave a minimum of 1 1/2 between the baffles, shooting fo 2" if possible. this make higher flow rates possible without drawing micros through. Anyone can see that a 1 in narrow space will move water through at twice the speed as a 2 in space would. Why not give the space to accommodate this and not have an issue? Additionally, the space between the baffles can be filled with LRR if you like, always a plus IMO. or a sponge, or bag of carbon etc... You cant do anything with 1/2 or even really 1 in...Why not use that space? You do want to calm the erratic action the dumping water entering the compartment a set of pre fuge baffles does well for this. As well as it stops the micro bubbles from entering the fuge, floating cheato collecting on other surfaces or whatever. You can set up a set, fill the first compartment with LRR (again I know
) . IMO those little piles of rubble really do a fine job producing pods and processing waste.
Now what I would recommend is to just simply shoot for 10X turnover through the sump/fuge. If you have the ability to control the flow rate to each compartment, shoot to match your skimmers actual flow rate. So find what skimmer you will be using, then the rate of actual water moving through it, match that or slightly higher maybe. Of course thats not what the pump moves in water volume alone, but how much it moves when air is drawn into it, which varies with how much air it is drawing. I think my Octo 300 moves 300 gph while drawing 30 scfh.
Not sure exactly..Then divert the rest through the fuge. A mg 18 would be a good pump for what your wanting, of course a mag 12 would do just fine also...My head loss calculator shows about 1150-1200gph
with a mag 18 Depending on plumbing...This is just fine.
You are saying algae scrubber, what kind of scrubber? Just a refugium with macros? Or a Turf algae scrubber? I think the Turf algae as your talking about length. how do you plan to do this exactly?
Why not put somer flow in the eggcrate to blow behind the rock stacked in it?
This is all just my opinion, you do whatever you like, cause I dont want you jumping all over me if you have problems...
Sorry I dont mean that to sound rude, but I have had the same scenario happen before. Hence my reason for being jumpy earlier.
 
king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2950354
Alright, I'll bite.

You are saying algae scrubber, what kind of scrubber? Just a refugium with macros? Or a Turf algae scrubber? I think the Turf algae as your talking about length. how do you plan to do this exactly?
Why not put somer flow in the eggcrate to blow behind the rock stacked in it?
This is all just my opinion, you do whatever you like, cause I dont want you jumping all over me if you have problems...
Sorry I dont mean that to sound rude, but I have had the same scenario happen before. Hence my reason for being jumpy earlier.

Turf, it will split from the main drain and have a ball valve to control flow. From there it will go to a hanging scrubber. I'm building a stand that will accommodate lots of head room for me to hang a scrubber. The scrubber will dip into the fuge where it will fall gently to the water. It apears I'll want to put about 630GPH to this side since that's what the scrubber will need.
Since its a deep fuge I can put a micro jet down below to stir gently...or not. Depends on whether or not that's needed.
"Why not put somer flow in the eggcrate to blow behind the rock stacked in it?"
I didn't quit follow this. please elaborate. if you mean put algea between baffle and egg crate..it think that's a good idea. More filtration is always better than less.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
I meant run a couple return lines down through the eggcrate/rock wall. Imbedded and hidden in it to blow on the backside of the rock and blow out debris?You could run one line down*3/4in pipe) and have 3 openings in it. each 1/3of the way in.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2950354
Alright, I'll bite.

Melevs info is good info, however a lot of it is generally opinion and much left to actual speculation. As is my opinion here...I personally believe what you want is for the water to be gentle enough to allow particulates to at least somewhat fall out(or better yet, be collected by a LRR section before entering) then move through the fuge so as to actually move through the macros. This is the slit I place in the fuge pre baffles. It causes the water to actually move up and through the macros. This allows more water to actually contact the algae, trapping particulates and drawing in DOCs. With a compartment that does not have this the tendency is more for the water to move along the surface of the water. You can see that there's not much water dwelling in the fuge this way, it tends to want to move right through, sure some will mix, but the majority just moves right through. A slower flow rate through this allows for more mixing as --- moves through, but overall less turnover through it. With higher flow rate and the "slit" in the baffles the water moves directly through the macros and because it is faced with a baffle wall at the other end it rolls and mixes...constantly. This IMO, allows for better saturation. Now, many many people have had issues with flow rates of 600gph through 1 in baffles. The reason is the tendency is for the micros to be swept through the narrow space between them. I prefer to leave a minimum of 1 1/2 between the baffles, shooting fo 2" if possible. this make higher flow rates possible without drawing micros through. Anyone can see that a 1 in narrow space will move water through at twice the speed as a 2 in space would. Why not give the space to accommodate this and not have an issue? Additionally, the space between the baffles can be filled with LRR if you like, always a plus IMO. or a sponge, or bag of carbon etc... You cant do anything with 1/2 or even really 1 in...Why not use that space? You do want to calm the erratic action the dumping water entering the compartment a set of pre fuge baffles does well for this. As well as it stops the micro bubbles from entering the fuge, floating cheato collecting on other surfaces or whatever. You can set up a set, fill the first compartment with LRR (again I know
) . IMO those little piles of rubble really do a fine job producing pods and processing waste.
Now what I would recommend is to just simply shoot for 10X turnover through the sump/fuge. If you have the ability to control the flow rate to each compartment, shoot to match your skimmers actual flow rate. So find what skimmer you will be using, then the rate of actual water moving through it, match that or slightly higher maybe. Of course thats not what the pump moves in water volume alone, but how much it moves when air is drawn into it, which varies with how much air it is drawing. I think my Octo 300 moves 300 gph while drawing 30 scfh.
Not sure exactly..Then divert the rest through the fuge. A mg 18 would be a good pump for what your wanting, of course a mag 12 would do just fine also...My head loss calculator shows about 1150-1200gph er="0" alt="" title="Thumbs up!" class="inlineimg" />with a mag 18 Depending on plumbing...This is just fine.
You are saying algae scrubber, what kind of scrubber? Just a refugium with macros? Or a Turf algae scrubber? I think the Turf algae as your talking about length. how do you plan to do this exactly?
Why not put somer flow in the eggcrate to blow behind the rock stacked in it?
This is all just my opinion, you do whatever you like, cause I dont want you jumping all over me if you have problems...
Sorry I dont mean that to sound rude, but I have had the same scenario happen before. Hence my reason for being jumpy earlier.

Everything in this hobby is generally opinion and whos better opion to go by then someone well known through out the hobby like Melev. That is why people give thier opions and it is up the Op to pick which info he feels will work for him. Yes some of your ideas may work well. But to say his design will not work well and go off kicking and screaming because they did not use all of your ideas is just childish. His design has been used by many and does work well. Is there ways to tweak it to make it better, sure.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Originally Posted by jpa0741
http:///forum/post/2950421
Everything in this hobby is generally opinion and whos better opion to go by then someone well known through out the hobby like Melev. That is why people give thier opions and it is up the Op to pick which info he feels will work for him. Yes some of your ideas may work well. But to say his design will not work well and go off kicking and screaming because they did not use all of your ideas is just childish. His design has been used by many and does work well. Is there ways to tweak it to make it better, sure.
You know what, your the one actually causing the trouble here. BTw, I don't think I know of ANYONE who has 1/2in spacing on a bubble trap. Melev's sumps are OK, but just because a guy has a website that shows some how to's doesn't make him an expert. I get sick of hearing people point to Meleve when there are many many MANY more sumps designed and built right here...All you have to do is look. BTW this is not your thread, it is no business of yours what goes on it. You have no idea at all why I posted what I did. You assume it's because he didn't try my ideas, it's more because certain people come along and debunk other peoples input, without actually having experience to see the flaws behind things. Just because something works and seems to work well, doesn't mean it actually does. You didn't give any input to the OP when he asked for it just now did you,...ideclare:... Butt out if all your going to do is stir crap.
 
king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
no please, id rather not have it closed. i know this hobby has people that will back up just about any claim out there.
hell, the hobby fish store guy told me he uses lava rock in many of his tanks you you were an idiot for telling me different. ok he didnt use the word idiot...it was more something like "I dont care what your little forum buddies bla bla bla" I still swapped out the rock.
Point is, I believe you both, but I'm gonna stub my toes plenty of times till I get it right. I'll post how this tank does regardless of 1/2 sucking or success. Just like the plastic cutting board I used. Its staying, and Ill freely admit if its a fail.
Worst case scenario....I take my second 55gallon and rebuild another better sump..then cut the flow, and drain out the old sump, replace with the new, and refill it. They aren't hard to come by. I payed like 20 bucks for one. and 30 for the other.
I can always cut the baffles out of the old one and make a frag tank or something.
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
whats up nep? hey i was wondering, what kind of skimmer are you going to be using on this set-up? you may have mentioned it earlier, but i dont want to go back through all the posts.
 
jpa0741

jpa0741

Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2950526
You know what, your the one actually causing the trouble here. BTw, I don't think I know of ANYONE who has 1/2in spacing on a bubble trap. Melev's sumps are OK, but just because a guy has a website that shows some how to's doesn't make him an expert. I get sick of hearing people point to Meleve when there are many many MANY more sumps designed and built right here...All you have to do is look. BTW this is not your thread, it is no business of yours what goes on it. You have no idea at all why I posted what I did. You assume it's because he didn't try my ideas, it's more because certain people come along and debunk other peoples input, without actually having experience to see the flaws behind things. Just because something works and seems to work well, doesn't mean it actually does. You didn't give any input to the OP when he asked for it just now did you,...ideclare:... Butt out if all your going to do is stir crap.

I am not here stir nothing. I was just trying to help as were you. And yes there are many sump/fuges built here. That is my point. There is more then one way to succesfully build one. You were the one pounding your head on the wall and throwing a tantrum. The only thing you seem to be stuck on is the 1/2" spacing which I had no comment on. I felt you addressed your concerns there and I had no experience with them. Just because something works and seems to works well doesn't mean it DOESN"T. As far as Melev being an expert I would say he is as close as you can get. Do you get paid to travel and give advice and do seminars on sump building. I didn't think so. Although in your mind it sound like you think you should. I am done with this.
I don't want Kings thread to get closed so I will stop posting here. If King has any questions or would like any input from me he can PM me.
 
king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2950615
whats up nep? hey i was wondering, what kind of skimmer are you going to be using on this set-up? you may have mentioned it earlier, but i dont want to go back through all the posts.
Dont know yet.
I decided to go with a different brand than the one from advanced plastics...simply becasue I wont be giving my buisness to that fish store anymore. I dont know any good brands, and researching the right skimmer is now on my to do list. Although Im pretty sure it will be a needle wheel skimmer. Since it is my understanding that they are the best types.
Any thoughts or suggestions anyone?
 
king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2950415
I meant run a couple return lines down through the eggcrate/rock wall. Imbedded and hidden in it to blow on the backside of the rock and blow out debris?You could run one line down*3/4in pipe) and have 3 openings in it. each 1/3of the way in.

ok that makes sense. But...considering that I'm having a scrubber flowing 630GPH directly and gently to the surface,
how do i say it...um...do i need to do both? or pick one?
 
king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
Ok update...glass is out. man that aint easy.
Unfortunately the 16" baffle on the opposite side cracked about 2 inches near the top when my elbow smashed into it as the fuge side gave free.
I used some leftover silicone to seal it back up. It's high enough up that no water would ever come to it anyways...but just the same. I resealed it. Tomorrow I'll go buy some silicon and put in the last 10" on the fuge side. Mabee after a nap Ill go fasten some rocks. I took the foam back to the hardware store and tried to swap it out for some pond foam. but they only had one can left. Its pricey, almost 3x as much...but I believe it is a necessary expense in this project.
 
nigerbang

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by King_Neptune
http:///forum/post/2950706
Dont know yet.
I decided to go with a different brand than the one from advanced plastics...simply becasue I wont be giving my buisness to that fish store anymore. I dont know any good brands, and researching the right skimmer is now on my to do list. Although Im pretty sure it will be a needle wheel skimmer. Since it is my understanding that they are the best types.
Any thoughts or suggestions anyone?
Whats your budget on a skimmer?
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
I don't think were on the same page with the flow egg crate thing. I'm referring to in the DT, putting outlets in your return line, so they will push water out through the rocks you stack in the tank. Concealed behind the rock and encased in the foam, LR. This helps greatly to keep crud from settling back there.
The "Great Stuff" expansion foam is just fine for what you want. It just needs to completely cure before using in the DT.
The Octo extreme line of skimmers as well as their twin the MSX skimmers give great bang for your buck, look at either the 160, or 200. I have the NW 200(I stated inaccurately the 300 earlier, my bad), heavily modified.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
The "Great Stuff" expansion foam is just fine for what you want. It just needs to completely cure before using in the DT.
Hey Doc, isn't there a clear coat epoxy that needs to go over it also as a UV protection and to use as a glue to adhere the sand you put on it?
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
how's the tank holding up? i think that even if it's not bowing now, it would be a good idea to brace it anyways. any idea of when you're going to drill your holes? as far as skimmers go, i was looking into octo's myself, but i dont know if they'll fit in my stand. definately go needle wheel though.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2951152
Hey Doc, isn't there a clear coat epoxy that needs to go over it also as a UV protection and to use as a glue to adhere the sand you put on it?

MOST do seal it up, I know of a few who haven't. With no consequences. I my self would seal it I suppose. However it's debatable as to whether or not sealing it does much if anything. It likely does help with UV protection, but it does nothing as far as sealing it for protection from water saturating or leaching. As I don't know of anyone who seals the back side of it.
 
king_neptune

king_neptune

Active Member
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2950903
Didnt get cut did ya?
Nope, elbow did the damage....i was like a mantis shrimp...i had all the force stored up and when the energy released it sent my arm flying to fast for me to control...i was carfully applying pressure to keep this from happening...bit it still happened. glass sealed nicly. Ill post a shot of the damage. its well above any waterline so I could have left it alone.
Originally Posted by NigerBang
http:///forum/post/2950904
Whats your budget on a skimmer?
I think about 300 is good enough to spend on a skimmer. I might evin buy a used one if its a good deal.
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2951152
Hey Doc, isn't there a clear coat epoxy that needs to go over it also as a UV protection and to use as a glue to adhere the sand you put on it?
I am using 20 and 30 min hobby epoxy. I have talked to about a dozen people who have used it on far suprior builds than my tiny 125. No problems. Then ill coat it with sand to give a more natural look. The foam Im using isnt greatstuff, I thought about it, and decided to use FISH SAFE pond foam. $14 a can, but Ill rest at ease.
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/2951209
how's the tank holding up? i think that even if it's not bowing now, it would be a good idea to brace it anyways. any idea of when you're going to drill your holes? as far as skimmers go, i was looking into octo's myself, but i dont know if they'll fit in my stand. definately go needle wheel though.
no change in shape yet. I have a string on top taped to each corner. I will still get a brace...I just don't know where to get one yet. Should I just look on line for acrylic and order a peice I think will suit my needs?
 
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