Neptunes 125 Reef Diary.
- Thread starter king_neptune
- Start date
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Why should I take the time to explain it when people are posting that it is fine when they obviously don't see the flaws. You try to be of help, then people post things they have just learned or have no real info on, as if they have tons of experience at it.
What is the purpose of having such a high flow rate through the sump? Why such a low flow rate through the fuge? This is @$$ backwards and IMO wont work very well. You'll get floated cheato. micros though the fuge, not enough absorption, It's not at all a very good designed filter....Salt creep is going to cover whatever fuge light you have in there, low flow or not. Soon as water with air in it gets put into the equation.
IMO you want more flow through the fuge, Lots is good, but 1000gph is all that is really needed for this fuge. As well you should nearly match what you skimmer turns over in the skimmer compartment. More is a waste and less is less efficient.The whole pods getting chopped up by the skimmer is hogwash BTW. With no compartment for LR you have your LR stacked on the SB, this causes dead areas in the SB, WHY??? it is much less efficient... as well as the LR wont allow the cheato to tumble. or it takes up space for caulerpa to live if that's your choice. The water will enter and stir the SB this wont guarantee a NNR SB.
Many people post up where they have had problems with 1" spacing between baffles, he's got 1/2"?
You know you help this guy, he doesn't really take your advise. Jumps down the LFS guys throat cause he didn't exactly do his research, but thinks he did.....
I guarantee you if the LFS guy would have said, you don't wanna buy that stuff you wanna buy this rock, it's more expensive. He would have been posting a b$%^h there too. It's not the LFS guys fault he went in there puffed up and didn't ask for help. The LFS guy is in a pickle, which is why he jumped the guys @$$ for coming to him all puffed up.
When he's blaming the LFS for his short comings....Not trusting them is different from blaming them when it your own fault.
Additionally he's going to set this up, cycle it for 2 weeks, no wait 2 months maybe, then when he gets kicked out he's gonna move it and then set it up as a SW tank....Definitely this guy has patience issues and needs to slow down, you suggest that and he goes all over how he knows what he's doing cause he reads and reads and writes down what he reads. When evidently he doesn't fully have the picture, but thinks he does.
I dunno, maybe I'm having a bad day?
What is the purpose of having such a high flow rate through the sump? Why such a low flow rate through the fuge? This is @$$ backwards and IMO wont work very well. You'll get floated cheato. micros though the fuge, not enough absorption, It's not at all a very good designed filter....Salt creep is going to cover whatever fuge light you have in there, low flow or not. Soon as water with air in it gets put into the equation.
Many people post up where they have had problems with 1" spacing between baffles, he's got 1/2"?
You know you help this guy, he doesn't really take your advise. Jumps down the LFS guys throat cause he didn't exactly do his research, but thinks he did.....
I dunno, maybe I'm having a bad day?
E
eric b 125
Guest
wow
bmkj02
Member
reifermadness
Member
Nope Watts... that pretty much sums it up.
reifermadness
Member
No Watts... I think you said it well.
king_neptune
Active Member
Originally Posted by bmkj02
http:///forum/post/2948278
wattsupdoc
You must be having a bad day. IMO first you need to fill this tank with water and let it sit for awhile. IMO I dont think this is a fish tank but a reptile tank. With what you had explained on the thickness of this tank with no cross bace its gonna bow. You are going way too fast, You saw my thread. I started my tank in May of '08 and its still not ready. Been cycling for 2 or 3 months now. It has no cross brace but its 3/4 inch thick. Im curious to see the outcome though. Also, I wouldnt use that silcone. They have special silicone tubes for aquariums only. HD and lowes sells that small tube but some LFS sell the big silicone tubes to be used in a caulking gun. I have heard mix reviews and which ones you can use but I didnt take the chance and paid $13 for a big tube. IMO. Good luck.
It's in the garage full of water right now. Got string on each corner waiting for it to bow. I will also order a plexi glass plate for the top. And I will fasten it with plastic screws and glue.
Also Ill get a big tube of silicon at the store for the foam all build.
http:///forum/post/2948278
It's in the garage full of water right now. Got string on each corner waiting for it to bow. I will also order a plexi glass plate for the top. And I will fasten it with plastic screws and glue.
Also Ill get a big tube of silicon at the store for the foam all build.
king_neptune
Active Member
Thank you.
jpa0741
Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2948228
Why should I take the time to explain it when people are posting that it is fine when they obviously don't see the flaws. You try to be of help, then people post things they have just learned or have no real info on, as if they have tons of experience at it.
What is the purpose of having such a high flow rate through the sump? Why such a low flow rate through the fuge? This is @$$ backwards and IMO wont work very well. You'll get floated cheato. micros though the fuge, not enough absorption, It's not at all a very good designed filter....Salt creep is going to cover whatever fuge light you have in there, low flow or not. Soon as water with air in it gets put into the equation.
IMO you want more flow through the fuge, Lots is good, but 1000gph is all that is really needed for this fuge. As well you should nearly match what you skimmer turns over in the skimmer compartment. More is a waste and less is less efficient.The whole pods getting chopped up by the skimmer is hogwash BTW. With no compartment for LR you have your LR stacked on the SB, this causes dead areas in the SB, WHY??? it is much less efficient... as well as the LR wont allow the cheato to tumble. or it takes up space for caulerpa to live if that's your choice. The water will enter and stir the SB this wont guarantee a NNR SB.
Many people post up where they have had problems with 1" spacing between baffles, he's got 1/2"?
You know you help this guy, he doesn't really take your advise. Jumps down the LFS guys throat cause he didn't exactly do his research, but thinks he did.....
I guarantee you if the LFS guy would have said, you don't wanna buy that stuff you wanna buy this rock, it's more expensive. He would have been posting a b$%^h there too. It's not the LFS guys fault he went in there puffed up and didn't ask for help. The LFS guy is in a pickle, which is why he jumped the guys @$$ for coming to him all puffed up.
When he's blaming the LFS for his short comings....Not trusting them is different from blaming them when it your own fault.
Additionally he's going to set this up, cycle it for 2 weeks, no wait 2 months maybe, then when he gets kicked out he's gonna move it and then set it up as a SW tank....Definitely this guy has patience issues and needs to slow down, you suggest that and he goes all over how he knows what he's doing cause he reads and reads and writes down what he reads. When evidently he doesn't fully have the picture, but thinks he does.
I dunno, maybe I'm having a bad day?
I am going to make my comments about this statement here then I am done with this nonsense and will get back to the goal of helping someone out with a new build.
For someone that has been in the hobby for a while I am surprised that you think there is only one way to run a succesfull reef tank. Many times when someone gives an idea others will also add another way it can be done. It is up to the OP to do some research and decide which way is best for them. I only give advice on real life experience not on hear say.
As far as how his fuge/sump is designed it is a tried and true tested design. It has been used by many including me and works very well. I do agree that he my be running to much flow through the sump but he has been determined to do so from the beginning and it is his choice. IMO fuges are designed to have a lower flow through them giving the macros more asorbotion time. 2-3x turnover is always a good rule of thumb. This is how I had my last setup and what I would change about my new setup if I could. Right now I have high flow running through my macro and it does not grow near as well. Also I see now reason why he would have micro bubbles or excessive salt creep if he lowered the one baffle as stated. As far as the 1/2" baffles I have no idea and gave no advice about that because I don't know.
As to when and where he sets up his tank I really don't care same goes for the rest of your rant.
So onto the build.
http:///forum/post/2948228
Why should I take the time to explain it when people are posting that it is fine when they obviously don't see the flaws. You try to be of help, then people post things they have just learned or have no real info on, as if they have tons of experience at it.
What is the purpose of having such a high flow rate through the sump? Why such a low flow rate through the fuge? This is @$$ backwards and IMO wont work very well. You'll get floated cheato. micros though the fuge, not enough absorption, It's not at all a very good designed filter....Salt creep is going to cover whatever fuge light you have in there, low flow or not. Soon as water with air in it gets put into the equation.
Many people post up where they have had problems with 1" spacing between baffles, he's got 1/2"?
You know you help this guy, he doesn't really take your advise. Jumps down the LFS guys throat cause he didn't exactly do his research, but thinks he did.....
I dunno, maybe I'm having a bad day?
I am going to make my comments about this statement here then I am done with this nonsense and will get back to the goal of helping someone out with a new build.
For someone that has been in the hobby for a while I am surprised that you think there is only one way to run a succesfull reef tank. Many times when someone gives an idea others will also add another way it can be done. It is up to the OP to do some research and decide which way is best for them. I only give advice on real life experience not on hear say.
As far as how his fuge/sump is designed it is a tried and true tested design. It has been used by many including me and works very well. I do agree that he my be running to much flow through the sump but he has been determined to do so from the beginning and it is his choice. IMO fuges are designed to have a lower flow through them giving the macros more asorbotion time. 2-3x turnover is always a good rule of thumb. This is how I had my last setup and what I would change about my new setup if I could. Right now I have high flow running through my macro and it does not grow near as well. Also I see now reason why he would have micro bubbles or excessive salt creep if he lowered the one baffle as stated. As far as the 1/2" baffles I have no idea and gave no advice about that because I don't know.
As to when and where he sets up his tank I really don't care same goes for the rest of your rant.
So onto the build.
jpa0741
Member
To put your mind at a little rest King here is a quote from a very well know sump/fuge builder named Melev. He is very well known in the reefing world. This text is copied right from his site. Do a google and check it out for some good info.
How do I determine how many baffles I need?
A bubble trap is a narrow section within the sump that is made up of three baffles. The center one is higher than the two outer ones. The bubble trap should be located after the area that contains the most bubbles. Normally, that would be where the water enters the sump and your protein skimmer is located. Microbubbles abound in this zone, so the bubble trap would be set up next, to prevent these from continuing through to the refugium and/or return section. If you have a refugium next, you'll need one more baffle between the refugium and the return section. All four baffles should be the same height in this setup.
Another way would be to have the return section in the center of your sump, between the skimmer section and the refugium. Water would drain into the skimmer section and the refugium from separate pipes. The refugium's baffle can be taller now, allowing greater depth for growth of macro algae. The height of the bubble trap baffles on the skimmer side is determined by your skimmer's requirements (see below).
How much flow should I have in the refugium?
The flow rate through a refugium is slower than through the sump. By use of a ball valve on the water feed to the refugium, you can set the flow rate to your specific desire. You need to avoid stagnant water, and the surface of the water should be broken slightly to avoid a film growing on the surface. Try to achieve a gentle flow throughout this zone.
How far apart should my bubble trap baffles be?
The bubble trap baffles should be 1" apart, with the center baffle 1" off the floor of the sump.
How deep should the water be in my sump?
Depth is determined by the type of protein skimmer you use, and how much room you have under your display tank. Every skimmer is rated for a specific depth of water it can run in. If your skimmer needs to run in 5" of water, you can adjust this with a small stand to hold the skimmer higher up in your sump. Keep in mind that as you raise the skimmer up, it will get closer to the top of your cabinet supporting your display tank. You still need to have easy access for simple maintenance. Having more water in the skimmer section is ideal, because it allows more time for microbubbles to dissipate, and it allows you to have more water in your return section where evaporation occurs on an hourly basis. If you can run your skimmer in 9-10" of water by setting it on a stand, you'll get great results in my experience.
The water level in the section where your skimmer is located must remain constant. If not, the skimmer won't be able to operate effectively. This is why the skimmer is in the first zone of your sump, as that water level never changes, except when your return pump is switched off and excess water accumulates.(See next point)
How do I determine how many baffles I need?
A bubble trap is a narrow section within the sump that is made up of three baffles. The center one is higher than the two outer ones. The bubble trap should be located after the area that contains the most bubbles. Normally, that would be where the water enters the sump and your protein skimmer is located. Microbubbles abound in this zone, so the bubble trap would be set up next, to prevent these from continuing through to the refugium and/or return section. If you have a refugium next, you'll need one more baffle between the refugium and the return section. All four baffles should be the same height in this setup.
Another way would be to have the return section in the center of your sump, between the skimmer section and the refugium. Water would drain into the skimmer section and the refugium from separate pipes. The refugium's baffle can be taller now, allowing greater depth for growth of macro algae. The height of the bubble trap baffles on the skimmer side is determined by your skimmer's requirements (see below).
How much flow should I have in the refugium?
The flow rate through a refugium is slower than through the sump. By use of a ball valve on the water feed to the refugium, you can set the flow rate to your specific desire. You need to avoid stagnant water, and the surface of the water should be broken slightly to avoid a film growing on the surface. Try to achieve a gentle flow throughout this zone.
How far apart should my bubble trap baffles be?
The bubble trap baffles should be 1" apart, with the center baffle 1" off the floor of the sump.
How deep should the water be in my sump?
Depth is determined by the type of protein skimmer you use, and how much room you have under your display tank. Every skimmer is rated for a specific depth of water it can run in. If your skimmer needs to run in 5" of water, you can adjust this with a small stand to hold the skimmer higher up in your sump. Keep in mind that as you raise the skimmer up, it will get closer to the top of your cabinet supporting your display tank. You still need to have easy access for simple maintenance. Having more water in the skimmer section is ideal, because it allows more time for microbubbles to dissipate, and it allows you to have more water in your return section where evaporation occurs on an hourly basis. If you can run your skimmer in 9-10" of water by setting it on a stand, you'll get great results in my experience.
The water level in the section where your skimmer is located must remain constant. If not, the skimmer won't be able to operate effectively. This is why the skimmer is in the first zone of your sump, as that water level never changes, except when your return pump is switched off and excess water accumulates.(See next point)
king_neptune
Active Member
I thought I had made it clear I would be setting up the tank as a practice run for the next month or 2. I wont be cycling or doing anything live till I move, there is no point. I am sorry for any confusion.
I want to watch the freshwater simulation and iron out details and make changes to design and flow as I see fit. This will give me plenty time to monitor the physical equipment, tank bulge, water flow, bubble's, temp fluctuation, heater placement, and scrap ideas that didn't work out as well as I thought ect.
When the time comes to move, I will break it down and move it to the new house, where I will set it up and do my first cycle.
I want to watch the freshwater simulation and iron out details and make changes to design and flow as I see fit. This will give me plenty time to monitor the physical equipment, tank bulge, water flow, bubble's, temp fluctuation, heater placement, and scrap ideas that didn't work out as well as I thought ect.
When the time comes to move, I will break it down and move it to the new house, where I will set it up and do my first cycle.
king_neptune
Active Member
thanks JP
spanko
Active Member
Really don't know the answer but will throw it out there for consideration.
You are running fresh water as a test of the equipment. Since there is no biolad and it is fresh water I would assume that there will be no real skimmer operation. I would also assume that the test of the baffles as a deterrent to bubbles reaching the display is also negated by the fact that it is fresh water and not salt water. Is this a true assumption?
You are running fresh water as a test of the equipment. Since there is no biolad and it is fresh water I would assume that there will be no real skimmer operation. I would also assume that the test of the baffles as a deterrent to bubbles reaching the display is also negated by the fact that it is fresh water and not salt water. Is this a true assumption?
king_neptune
Active Member
Originally Posted by jpa0741
http:///forum/post/2948513
How much flow should I have in the refugium?
The flow rate through a refugium is SLOWER than through the sump. By use of a ball valve on the water feed to the refugium, you can set the flow rate to your specific desire. You need to avoid stagnant water, and the surface of the water should be broken slightly to avoid a film growing on the surface. Try to achieve a gentle flow throughout this zone.
This is why I am doing it with a feed that splits from the drain.
By having 2 ball valves at the top of the system I can adjust the flow as needed. Or simply go with a smaller pump. I made it 2600GPH to allow me to have this degree of flexibility, I can tune it as much or as little as needed. I can always lower the flow of water leaving the tank via my valves or use a different pump. I cannot however increase the amount once the pipes are in place. And thus 2600gph is the peak my system will do. But I can go as small a flow as I want.
It is my intent to install a scrubber on the fuge side. The scrubber will need a flow rate of 630GPH to operate at its peak. I can reduce this this via the ball valve as necessary.
From there it will fall down the screen and land in the pool of water which will contain LR and Sand. And thus break up the surface of the water.
It is a large fuge to specifically allow me to hold more LR, this is to off set the foam wall that will take up LR space in my DT. I will have a micro jet if needed in the fuge to churn the water. I don't know if that's needed or not, but I'm open to that possibility.
This sump is over sized for my DT, I know this, that is why I chose it. It will allow me a greater degree of flexibility in filtration, and more room for error. I'm building a larger stand to raise the tank to chest level, and allow more room inside the bottom to work. The return will have multiple outlets for increased flow throughout the tank, but I will put ball valves at key junctions to "seal off" as needed.
king_neptune
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2948525
Really don't know the answer but will throw it out there for consideration.
You are running fresh water as a test of the equipment. Since there is no biolad and it is fresh water I would assume that there will be no real skimmer operation. I would also assume that the test of the baffles as a deterrent to bubbles reaching the display is also negated by the fact that it is fresh water and not salt water. Is this a true assumption?
Yes, but it is as close to the real thing as I can get. I don't want to set up life in the tank, or cycle until I am physically in my permanent residence. I mainly am doing this to check for leaks and in perfections in flow ect.
Plus staring at water running through an empty tank will make me feel warm and fuzzy^^
http:///forum/post/2948525
Really don't know the answer but will throw it out there for consideration.
You are running fresh water as a test of the equipment. Since there is no biolad and it is fresh water I would assume that there will be no real skimmer operation. I would also assume that the test of the baffles as a deterrent to bubbles reaching the display is also negated by the fact that it is fresh water and not salt water. Is this a true assumption?
Yes, but it is as close to the real thing as I can get. I don't want to set up life in the tank, or cycle until I am physically in my permanent residence. I mainly am doing this to check for leaks and in perfections in flow ect.
Plus staring at water running through an empty tank will make me feel warm and fuzzy^^
spanko
Active Member
Originally Posted by King_Neptune
http:///forum/post/2948531
It is a large fuge to specifically allow me to hold more LR, this is to off set the foam wall that will take up LR space in my DT.
You do know that the bacteria will populate the foam wall just as it would if you had live rock in there instead of the foam wall don't you?
http:///forum/post/2948531
It is a large fuge to specifically allow me to hold more LR, this is to off set the foam wall that will take up LR space in my DT.
You do know that the bacteria will populate the foam wall just as it would if you had live rock in there instead of the foam wall don't you?
spanko
Active Member
Originally Posted by King_Neptune
http:///forum/post/2948534
Yes, but it is as close to the real thing as I can get. I don't want to set up life in the tank, or cycle until I am physically in my permanent residence. I mainly am doing this to check for leaks and in perfections in flow ect.
Plus staring at water running through an empty tank will make me feel warm and fuzzy^^
Gottcha!
http:///forum/post/2948534
Yes, but it is as close to the real thing as I can get. I don't want to set up life in the tank, or cycle until I am physically in my permanent residence. I mainly am doing this to check for leaks and in perfections in flow ect.
Plus staring at water running through an empty tank will make me feel warm and fuzzy^^
Gottcha!
king_neptune
Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2948540
You do know that the bacteria will populate the foam wall just as it would if you had live rock in there instead of the foam wall don't you?
It will populate the rock embedded into the foam wall for sure. But at any rate...better safe than sorry, a large fuge is better than a small fuge non the less.
http:///forum/post/2948540
You do know that the bacteria will populate the foam wall just as it would if you had live rock in there instead of the foam wall don't you?
It will populate the rock embedded into the foam wall for sure. But at any rate...better safe than sorry, a large fuge is better than a small fuge non the less.
novahobbies
Well-Known Member
It'll also populate the foam. Same principle, my friend: bacteria don't really care were they live, just as long as they find a good spot to eat, poop, and divide (so to speak). I have a LFS down here who made his main display "rock" almost entirely out of foam, with only some big pieces of LR at the base to weight it down. It's beautiful. Completely covered in coralline growth, and the foam is indistinguishable from the original LR.
As for the tufa, I love it, personally. I can buy dry lightweight pieces for $1.99/lb and get twice the physical volume of rock for the same weight. I used it for my 110g display with some seed live rock, and it colored up very well. It's not true coralline yet, but it's getting there!
Can't wait to see your tank build pics when you get going on the freshwater test. Keep it up!
As for the tufa, I love it, personally. I can buy dry lightweight pieces for $1.99/lb and get twice the physical volume of rock for the same weight. I used it for my 110g display with some seed live rock, and it colored up very well. It's not true coralline yet, but it's getting there!
Can't wait to see your tank build pics when you get going on the freshwater test. Keep it up!
E
eric b 125
Guest
how are things coming along? got any new pics?