Obama supporters. I have one question

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2581251
We are headed for very dark times... and we need a change.. Look at gas prices, food prices, and in general inflation. Look at the housing market.. many of you argue that housing is good... but we have the lowest new house purchases in last 16 years... We are in a recession and headed for worse. When you have to make life decisions at the gas pump or grocery store.. there is a problem.
Look at our position in the world and how it has changed.. We can't continue with the way things have been.. We have to change our position on Iraq... We need an inspirational leader with a vision... McCain lacks this, and is weak on many other issues... I would think his military leadership would be better, but again we can't continue in Iraq as we have.. this is a crucial time when we need to invest in America.
Things I may differ on with Obama... is taxes on $75k and below... I would bump this up to perhaps to $100K to $125K to $150K.. Somewhere around there. I also would perhaps raise capital gains to perhaps 20% and not the 23%-28% suggested.
But lets make this about the issues... and stop all the Wright talk... because basically what you are doing is trying to make this an issue of race... an issue of division... which is not what the campaign is about, and its the very thing you claim to be preaching against... but you and others give it life.
You are right about the change needed in 2008.
In just one year. Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following: A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2. 19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4. 5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3. 50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2. 3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1. 2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it! Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
Quote of the Day. . . . . . . 'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it. ' -- Barack Obama

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2581267
The problem is you are buying into the hype.
Housing market is down. That, of course, is after record home ownership and record new houses being built. Did you expect it to keep going up?
Gas prices are up. The Democrats said 2 years ago they would fix this. The price of gas has gone up close to 20% since they said that. Obama has offered absolutely no answer to this. He is just lying about it just like his party did 2 years ago if he says he can lower it.
We are not in a Recession. At least not yet. Please look at the numbers and read what the definition actually is.
Last I heard... Bush is saying we are not based on the numbers not being out yet... but I talk to at least 30-50 business owners a day.. I also see the changes I am making in my life... Everyone, except Bush is saying we are in a recession...And that is because of fears his words will cause the market to decrease more.
McCain has said it... Look at the financial news in the last month to two months... Airliners, banks,

[hr]
lenders, foreclosures, automakers, Wall Street, food, gas, retailers, layoffs..etc
Lets get real.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2581271
Rylan, let's talk about issues.
*How will Obama lower gas prices?
*How do you feel about Obama supporting partial birth abortions?
*How do you feel about Obama's plan to abandon Iraq and allow Iranian supported Shiite's to occupy Basra and control the Iraqi oil fields?
*How do you feel about Obama saying we might have to go back into Iraq after we leave if Al Qaeda establishes a base there?
*What do you think will happen to our eceonomy when the Capital Gains tax is doubled?
*How do you feel about Socializing the oil and Medical industries? And, what do you think Socializing these inudstries does to the Constitution?
We need to gain a better control over medicine and oil... Fluctuations have a significant effect on our economy..
I said that Capital Gains could perhaps go to 20%... I told you if I were Obama with out knowing the specifics to why he would raise... I would take it to this... not the 23%-28% that has been proposed.
I agree with him on Iraq.. But in going into Iraq we have to work directly with Syria and Iran..this means direct talks... But if we go back to Iraq it would be specialized missions and not a redeployment of 100,000 troops or whatever.
As far as the abortion debate... I am pro-life but believe in a women's right to choose. I would have to know the specifics to why the law was voted against... It may have been the language and certain aspects of the law that he didn't agree with... I don't know... but I believe Obama has the same opinion as I do on this issue. This issue is not as black and white as you want it to be... and I am sure there are many aspects of the law that need to be taken in consideration. I am not giving an excuse... but again we should take in considertion the law in its entirity.
I would like to hear a plan for Obama and gas... McCain's Tax Holiday is no good... Have you thought of the effect of what would happen after holiday when gas jumps back up $.20. Not to mention it takes away from Highway and Bridge repair funding and would create an additional defeict of around $7-$10 billion

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2581271
Rylan, let's talk about issues.
*How will Obama lower gas prices?
*How do you feel about Obama supporting partial birth abortions?
*How do you feel about Obama's plan to abandon Iraq and allow Iranian supported Shiite's to occupy Basra and control the Iraqi oil fields?
*How do you feel about Obama saying we might have to go back into Iraq after we leave if Al Qaeda establishes a base there?
*What do you think will happen to our eceonomy when the Capital Gains tax is doubled?
*How do you feel about Socializing the oil and Medical industries? And, what do you think Socializing these inudstries does to the Constitution?
Let's talk about the issue Rylan.

 

[1journeyman]

So Rylan, in essence, you are for Socializing key components of our economy.
How does this agree with the Constitution?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2581278
You are right about the change needed in 2008.
In just one year. Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following: A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2. 19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4. 5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3. 50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2. 3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1. 2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it! Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
Quote of the Day. . . . . . . 'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it. ' -- Barack Obama
You can't blame Congress for the problems we face...perhaps for not acting fast enough to make some changes..You also have to consider the Veto power of the President... they also did push through the Stimulus plan.. Many of these problems are out of their control and the Housing stuff had already been originated.
Who has control over reserves?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2581301
So Rylan, in essence, you are for Socializing key components of our economy.
How does this agree with the Constitution?
Not in entirely... but we do need to fix the system.. Capitalism is fine.. but it does create problems.... and without direct influence... I don't think prices will come down... they may stabalize... but we do need to make healthcare affordable and find a solution to gas/oil... I am hearing $5 may be the value of gas and it may not stabalize until then... if things remain the same... thing of the disasterous effect it will have.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2581296
We need to gain a better control over medicine and oil... Fluctuations have a significant effect on our economy..
I said that Capital Gains could perhaps go to 20%... I told you if I were Obama with out knowing the specifics to why he would raise... I would take it to this... not the 23%-28% that has been proposed.
I agree with him on Iraq.. But in going into Iraq we have to work directly with Syria and Iran..this means direct talks... But if we go back to Iraq it would be specialized missions and not a redeployment of 100,000 troops or whatever.
As far as the abortion debate... I am pro-life but believe in a women's right to choose. I would have to know the specifics to why the law was voted against... It may have been the language and certain aspects of the law that he didn't agree with... I don't know... but I believe Obama has the same opinion as I do on this issue. This issue is not as black and white as you want it to be... and I am sure there are many aspects of the law that need to be taken in consideration. I am not giving an excuse... but again we should take in considertion the law in its entirity.
I would like to hear a plan for Obama and gas... McCain's Tax Holiday is no good... Have you thought of the effect of what would happen after holiday when gas jumps back up $.20. Not to mention it takes away from Highway and Bridge repair funding and would create an additional defeict of around $7-$10 billion
Rylan, I'm not interested in what you think is best. Your candidate is who we are talking about. You can give your opinion, but I suspect that isn't going to change Obama's destructive plans.
Rylan, look at Obama's answer on April 16th. Obama admits revenue went up when Clinton and President Bush lowered the Capital Gains Tax, then says he would raise it for "fairness".
He wants to redistribute wealth through taxes.
Abortion- If it is important to you, why don't you bother to look it up for yuorself and see why obama voted the way he did, instead of just "assuming" that Obama has the same beliefs as you do? What do you base that assumption on?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2581313
Not in entirely... but we do need to fix the system.. Capitalism is fine.. but it does create problems.... and without direct influence... I don't think prices will come down... they may stabalize... but we do need to make healthcare affordable and find a solution to gas/oil... I am hearing $5 may be the value of gas and it may not stabalize until then... if things remain the same... thing of the disasterous effect it will have.
Price "fixing" is Socialism Rylan.
Please explain, from a constitutional standpoint, where the President has the authority to Socialize Home Ownership, The Oil Industry, or the Health Industry.
Constitutionally please explain this.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2581313
Not in entirely... but we do need to fix the system.. Capitalism is fine.. but it does create problems.... and without direct influence... I don't think prices will come down... they may stabalize... but we do need to make healthcare affordable and find a solution to gas/oil... I am hearing $5 may be the value of gas and it may not stabalize until then... if things remain the same... thing of the disasterous effect it will have.

Dude go pickup a economic history book, or research the differences between keynesian and Freedman economics. and the results in history of it. Then come back, and restate your previous statement. You'd have to ignore history to support your previous statement.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Rylan ....
What are your thoughts on this idea ?
What if the oil industry does become socialized but to help keep it at a target price they start to ration it ? What if you are only allowed 20 gallons every two weeks ? What if every person in the U.S.A is only allowed 20 gallons every two weeks ? That cuts down the demand right ? That should in turn cut the cost ? But then again what kind of drastic changes will that make to the average citizens life ?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2581306
You can't blame Congress for the problems we face...perhaps for not acting fast enough to make some changes..You also have to consider the Veto power of the President... they also did push through the Stimulus plan.. Many of these problems are out of their control and the Housing stuff had already been originated.
Who has control over reserves?
Sure I can. Congress has the ultimate control over the purse strings. When conservatives controlled congress in the 90's they were able to drag Clinton kicking and screaming into spending cuts and welfare reform. Too bad the good republicans are all left. If they had stayed we wouldn't have Pelosi screwing things up now.
Just heard OBO wants windfall profits taxes on the oil companies. Yep, lets raise their cost of doing business so they can pass it on to we the consumers. I guess Obo has more votes to buy while putting the costs on the backs of working Americans, again.

 

[reefraff]

I am from a political standpoint pro choice more or less. I'm torn on partial birth. I mean if a doctor who takes an oath that says "first do no harm" is basically going to scramble the brain of a newborn baby unless it was absolutly neccessary we might just as well do the universe a favor and push all the buttons at once and blow the planet into oblivion.
However I will never compromise on the issue of parental involvement for minors. Obama not only voted against the bill creating the law prohibiting a non guardian from taking a minor child across state lines to avoid consent or notification laws, he said parents shouldn't be involved unless the child was very young, like 12 or 13. Sorry, can't live with that.

 

[fats71]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2581078
McCain has big flaws like immigration, but has positives like winning the war on terror and taxes. Most importantly he will appoint originalist judges and justices, not those who will legislate from the bench. His is not my first choice, but between Obama and Clinton socialism, I'll take McCain.
I am a conservative Consitutionalist. That is diametrically opposed to socialism/marxism.
I been saying this since day one the lesser of all evils is McCain
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2581207
Amen.
+5
Originally Posted by Fats71
http:///forum/post/2579859
I am not trying to insult you but are you a simpleton ??
The answer to Violence is not more violence are you kidding me ?
OK, so the police goto a domestic call where a man is beating his wife with a ball bat... The cops should walk in and say howdy fella wanna drop the bat and lets hug the violence out of ya ?
OK, now then someone flies a airplane into our building killing innocent civilians children fire and rescue and were gonna go over and walk into their camp or terror and say howdy fellas lets hug that mean right on out of ya...
Dolt.....
I swear I lost 25 IQ points reading your statement and lost 2 minutes of my life I will never get back...
I wanted to stop for a week in respect to our troops but I just can't with blockhead answers like that...
I wrote this and you responded with what is quoted below which is again simple and ill address after the post.
Originally Posted by Rylan1;2579992:
laughing: that explains alot... Let us use your analogy... So do you propose the cop come in and shoot him, wrestle with him, use his baton to beat him like the perp is beating his wife? No, the officer has to gain control of the situation, but he doesn't have the right to beat on him, but to use necessary force to arrest the man.
No one is saying lets hug... but this is not a war that we are going to have some sort of treaty. This is not a war that we are going to be able to take territory, or simply occupy a country.. This is a war against an idealogy and a people that are not fighting for their country, but based on principles. There is a lack of understanding that you have to why they are fighting. Just as there was a lack of understanding to what would happen after we invaded Iraq. Iraq didn't fly planes into the WTT. They also were not an iminent threat to us... We dropped the ball, and the Bush Admin mislead us to why we getting into this war. Regardless of the intent...maybe to kill two birds with one stone, or to fight in their land... if those are reasons... we were still mislead.
Nothing you said here really answers anything I asked or anyone else asked and to Say I do not understand well young friend I was there the first time so I'm pretty sure I know what is what. I also live on a ARMY POST which would probably put me in the know a Little more about our military projects than you for instance... This is the boot camp for the ARMY and training center for most of our military. I think I might have a clue.By the way come to my area and tell these guys you support OBAMA AND i am betting you will never say it again...
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2581247
Rylan, don't go! If you quit playing their game, they will be just a bunch of retired old grumpy men talking to themselves!
OMG SUZY Is back I'm betting she is on her lunch break pfft who am I kidding we all know she was in the middle of her shift.

 

[kikithemermaid]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2581075
Wow, you should run for President too!
I'm 20. But thanks.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2581266
Obama and Hilary have essentially the same platform with minor differences... Obama has not labeled anyone... its you that does the labeling... its you that brings up race.
I don't think Obama is a marxist because he's black, I think he is a Marxist based on his words, associations and record. That sorta makes the whole wright debacle make sense.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2581247
Rylan, don't go! If you quit playing their game, they will be just a bunch of retired old grumpy men talking to themselves!
Suzy!
You finally back to work?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2581325
Please explain, from a constitutional standpoint, where the President has the authority to Socialize Home Ownership, The Oil Industry, or the Health Industry.
Constitutionally please explain this.
Since Rylan has moved on, I'd like another of the obama supporters to answer this.
I'm trying to figure out if Obama fans don't know Obama is a Socialist, or if they don't care.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2582097
Since Rylan has moved on, I'd like another of the obama supporters to answer this.
I'm trying to figure out if Obama fans don't know Obama is a Socialist, or if they don't care.

They don't care, they WANT socialism, and a big government to rob from the producers and give to the consumers. They believe in the gov't over the Consitution, Federalist Papers and Declaration of Independance, and even the people.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2582130
They don't care, they WANT socialism, and a big government to rob from the producers and give to the consumers. They believe in the gov't over the Consitution, Federalist Papers and Declaration of Independance, and even the people.
That is what I want to hear from them. We've begun to get a picture of what they believe in regards to our military (our soliders are responsible for 100,000s of civilian deaths).
I want to see what they believe in regards to the Constitution.