Obama supporters. I have one question

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491575
I haven't opposed or denied that. Fact is I believe in his message and what he is doing/saying... I think it will have a good impact on America. He has a message of Hope and Change.... I believe his record supports that... I believe his journey has been remarkable and that he has done and accomplished the things he has set his mind to... and this will continue.. He is bringing people together... I like his views on healthcare, education, economy, and foreign policy among others. There may be some slight tweaks here or there... but overall... I think he is what a president should be when it comes to presentation, substance, message, and role.
Change? You have given examples of him being democrat team player. He advocates price controls, wage controls, the government controlling healthcare. His wife hasn't believed in America for her entire life. His church supports divisive race baters. Yeah that is the "yes we can change I'm talking about."
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member

Originally Posted by bdhutier
http:///forum/post/2491569
You see, Rylan, this isn't a dime-store novel. This isn't a linear sit-com. This is warfare, and like every other conflict in history, things change. The situation changes on a daily basis, and it's the commanders' responsibilities to do their best to anticipate and/or react to those changes. Although I know in advance I'm wasting my time typing this, I'd like you to name JUST ONE conflict which has ended in a maintained peace without nation-building. I dare you to name one.
400+100+40= 540 years.
2008-540= 1468
Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492... are you using that Liberal math, or just shooting from the hip again?
I figured you would want to get literal, instead of accepting my estimate.
I also assume that Europe won't count in your eyes... but
large volumes of kidnapped slaves arrived in Europe in 1444.. the first trasatlantic shipment was 1493 by Columbus... Systematic system from Africa to New World began in 1510. So I will use that # if it makes you feel better... So lets see 355 years of slavery (1510-1865)... 100 years (1865-1965) 43 years (1965-2008) = 498 years....
So my liberal math was actually an understatment by 24 years... but since we are equating slavery in the Americas... you have your actual # not that it matters.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2491581
How about 2000 years of Muslims waring with "christian Nations", their current "leaders" in Iran, Lybia, and other nations? Their attacks on 9-11. Islamic issues are far more pressing than the "racism" heck a black guy is a legit contender for president.
What does this have to do with Obama? ... nothing
Oh wait... 2000 years if muslims? Is that your consevative math? The Islamic religion hasn't been in existence for 2000 years....
This is not a war against Islam... don't we in America have the right to practice any religion we want w/o being persecuted... It was al Qaeda's attack ... not the Islamic religion's.
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491501
You guys all seem to be from the same party and consevative...
Yeah? So?
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491501
however you will loose this election...
Well, we'll just see about that.

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491501
I've thought about it and you say I am misinformed.. but I am not... the question I posted above is a valid question... What was are inital purpose and plan for Iraq and what is it now? Has it changed...You all have suggested it was to find and eliminate WMD's... then to fight terror... and now it seems to be nation building, which the Bush Admin said it would not do during his tenor. Its obvious there have been many mistakes in the planning and implementation of this war and that you all and this admin are not willing to fess up to. What benchmarks have been meet? Marginal success isn't enough when it falls way short of the initial goals that have been set.
Hmmm... you're right. Bush did say he wouldn't engage in nation-building, yet we clearly are now. That has changed.
*shrug* so what?
The question is: are we doing the right thing now? And we certainly are.
And we're winning, too. Check it out:
Michael Totten has a dispatch describing the current state of affairs around Fallujah.
Long War Journal has a good series on the current state and challenges facing the Iraqi government. Summary: they're making good progress, but it ain't easy.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491501
To comment on the comments above... what does it matter what his family was or is? We live in the United States of America and his religion should be a none issue..if you believe in what this nation was founded on, if you do not belief in this and our rights ... than you are clearly bigoted and biased.
His name was given to him... he has no say in it, and to deny it .. he denies who he is and his history. A person is more than just the name he carries. IMO if he were to change it ..it would make him less of a man, because the only reasoning would be to please those who would only have a selffullfilling interest in him. This is the United States were names shouldn't matter and limit you from being what you have worked to be.
To comment on the name and to use it in the manner its been used is.... lets call it for what it is ..... fear mongering... in an attempt to link him with muslim extremist or Saddam Hussein. And even though it doesn't matter... he was not raised by his father's family...his father had no impact on his life...because he left when he was 2... You all are misrepresenting the facts... You claim my positions are wrong... but when you all have the position you do about a name... it decreases your credibility. This name is a very common name and to use it to slander someone is wrong... as your candidate McCain has said.
Who cares? His name is Barrack Hussein Obama. So what?
Its his policies I don't like. I don't care about his name, race, or religion.
-Ozmar the Conservative
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491543
Ozmar needs to listen better... instead of catching a 30 sec story about what Obama is saying... Ozmar sounds islamic ..should I now disparage your comments.
He he... you're funny.

I'm listening all right, but I'm not liking what I'm hearing. Most liberal voting record? That's not a prescription for a safe or secure America!
-Ozmar the Frightened
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491552
you have not given me undeniable proof... you've only given info that supports your views... if was 100% than why would 50% of people disagree with you... and don't use this site as a representation of the nation... you still didn't answer my question... are we nation building?
When your views comport with reality, the facts tend to support them.
We are nation building. So what? What's wrong with that? Do you have a problem with America helping Iraqis to build a better nation? If so, please explain why so I can explain why you're wrong.

-Ozmar the Playful
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491552
you have not given me undeniable proof... you've only given info that supports your views... if was 100% than why would 50% of people disagree with you... and don't use this site as a representation of the nation... you still didn't answer my question... are we nation building?
You have flatly ignored cited sources, listen a ---- magazine as a source of political information. I could handle you making an argument then backing it with a half way decent source but you can't even do that. You can't just repeat the same statement over and over and expect me as a moron to believe it. That works for some people. But not all. If you were to legitimately ask me why I don't believe in entitlements. I can have have explained why. If you ask me why I think democrats are socialist in ideology. I can list why, have have. If you ask me why i think Barak is socialist I can list to you why I think that. Heck all you have to do is read his "economic plan."
for instance in the quoted segment, You attack Journeyman for only giving you sources supporting his idealogy. (that is what a debate is you present your viewpoint. That isn't a flaw or even a rebuttal if he doesn't. You claim that 50% of the people don't believe with Journeyman. You can't prove that. that is an anecdotal argument, that holds no water. So if you want to accuse me of twisting information. Especially economic information, for which I hold a BBA in economics and International Business and I have use generally accepted modeling to support my viewpoint (which you dismissed but you could provide no proof of your own) get with the program their are plenty of socialist economics who hold your viewpoints.
There are several reasons why people have different opinions on
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491552
you have not given me undeniable proof... you've only given info that supports your views... if was 100% than why would 50% of people disagree with you?
OMG! I almost forgot! You have got to check this out:
This is why 50% of people (at least) will be wrong even there are perfectly good reasons for them to know better.
-Ozmar the Dismayed by Humanity
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Ozmar
http:///forum/post/2491629
Yeah? So?
Well, we'll just see about that.

Hmmm... you're right. Bush did say he wouldn't engage in nation-building, yet we clearly are now. That has changed.
*shrug* so what?
The question is: are we doing the right thing now? And we certainly are.
And we're winning, too. Check it out:
Michael Totten has a dispatch describing the current state of affairs around Fallujah.
Long War Journal has a good series on the current state and challenges facing the Iraqi government. Summary: they're making good progress, but it ain't easy.
Who cares? His name is Barrack Hussein Obama. So what?
Its his policies I don't like. I don't care about his name, race, or religion.
-Ozmar the Conservative
Thats fine and fair... but what I don't like is the clear misrepresentations of him... I don't believe you've done it... I think we should stick to the policies and what the candidate brings to the table. These things people are bringing up are either non-issues or incorrect.
 
rylan1

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Ozmar
http:///forum/post/2491645
OMG! I almost forgot! You have got to check this out:
This is why 50% of people (at least) will be wrong even there are perfectly good reasons for them to know better.
-Ozmar the Dismayed by Humanity
I didn't look at your post... but who says journey or whoever is right.. who really knows what is going on over there and what the true agenda is ... we don't have any access to the real story or documents.
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2491603
Change? You have given examples of him being democrat team player. He advocates price controls, wage controls, the government controlling healthcare. His wife hasn't believed in America for her entire life. His church supports divisive race baters. Yeah that is the "yes we can change I'm talking about."
Plus, don't forget that "change" is only good if you change to something better. I am not interested in Obama's "change". I'll take stasis over Obama's socialist health care, grade-school foreign policy, and leftist economics, thank you!
-Ozmar the Conservative (as in: lets conserve the good things we've got, not "change" to something worse!)
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491619
What does this have to do with Obama? ... nothing
Oh wait... 2000 years if muslims? Is that your consevative math? The Islamic religion hasn't been in existence for 2000 years....
This is not a war against Islam... don't we in America have the right to practice any religion we want w/o being persecuted... It was al Qaeda's attack ... not the Islamic religion's.
Depends how you look at it. In their minds they have been around since the beginning of time.
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491655
I didn't look at your post... but who says journey or whoever is right.. who really knows what is going on over there and what the true agenda is ... we don't have any access to the real story or documents.
I'm sorry, but, what?!
What are you talking about?
If you're talking about Iraq, it might interest you to note that Michael Totten is actually in Iraq, and is reporting from first-hand experience.
Since you are not going to follow the link, I'll summarize for you: The post you quoted above links (indirectly) to a video which shows a question on a "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire"-type show. The punchline is that the contestant and 56% of the audience doesn't even know that the earth revolves around the sun!
Weep for our civilization if that statistic holds true generally.

If it does, then we can safely conclude that 50% of the people are wrong about complex political questions because at least half the population are idiots.
No offense to anyone here!
I'm sure we're all above average.
-Ozmar the Generous
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491619
What does this have to do with Obama? ... nothing
Oh wait... 2000 years if muslims? Is that your consevative math? The Islamic religion hasn't been in existence for 2000 years....
This is not a war against Islam... don't we in America have the right to practice any religion we want w/o being persecuted... It was al Qaeda's attack ... not the Islamic religion's.
It really doesn't, I have no problem with it, but you have dredged up racism, and slavery, and linked white men to these problems of our forefathers. Then maybe we should question the rearing his father and grandparants gave him, we don't know what they taught him. I'm just saying it has more relavance than to the whole slavery/racism thing.
Once again if a black man is a viable candidate for president. How can this country be a country of racists?
 
bdhutier

bdhutier

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491608
I figured you would want to get literal, instead of accepting my estimate.
I also assume that Europe won't count in your eyes... but
large volumes of kidnapped slaves arrived in Europe in 1444.. the first trasatlantic shipment was 1493 by Columbus... Systematic system from Africa to New World began in 1510. So I will use that # if it makes you feel better... So lets see 355 years of slavery (1510-1865)... 100 years (1865-1965) 43 years (1965-2008) = 498 years....
So my liberal math was actually an understatment by 24 years... but since we are equating slavery in the Americas... you have your actual # not that it matters.
Before I start, you are correct in asserting, for the purposes of this discussion, I don't care about the slave trade in Europe. I'm not in Europe, and the trade went on there since at least the Roman era. So, yep.. don't care. Oh, nor do I find relevant the issue of the trade to South/Central America or the Caribbean.
Ok, the first slave ship (Dutch flag White Lion) to hit the US in 1619 with 20 slaves aboard. Not quite 1510. The 1619 landing was pretty much a freak occurance, however, and not a true "slave trade." The sinking White Lion paddles into port on a wing-and-a-prayer, and trades the slaves for repairs and food. Slavery in the American British Colonies was legalized in 1654, and of course ended in December 1865. So, there here the actual numbers, depending on how you want to look at them:
From the first landing until now: 398 (you're off by 142yrs)
From Legalization until now: 354 (you're off by 186 yrs)
All I'm asking is to at least try and get your facts straight before you post something...

Still waiting for the example of successful peace without nation-building I've asked for.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
If you are going to hold Bush to the nationbuilding quote?
Why are you refusing to hold Obama to the Single payer healthcare speech?
 
ozmar

ozmar

Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2491650
Thats fine and fair... but what I don't like is the clear misrepresentations of him... I don't believe you've done it... I think we should stick to the policies and what the candidate brings to the table. These things people are bringing up are either non-issues or incorrect.
Sure, by all means. I don't care if he's muslim (which, for the record, he's not: he belongs to a Christian church of questionable politics). I do care that his policy proscriptions are left to far-left, that he would commit us to a naive foreign policy, and that he would advance an agenda of socialist government controls which would worsen our health care system.
And for the record, I did call him (and do think he is) a fool.
-Ozmar the Critical
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top