Obama supporters. I have one question

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514378
They've already attacked him on racial and background issues...He's the most attacked candidate in the race..He's fighting both Clinton and McCain.
lol, welcome to being a Republican...
I challenge you to find a single press article in a major newspaper a 10th as critical of Obama that the hatchet job NYTimes piece recently was of McCain.
Right now the major media is split over who to endorse, so they are running attack pieces in both directions. That said, Nationally, NO Way is Obama the most attacked candidate. If he was he would be answering questions about Al Qaeda in Iraq, Rezko, etc. at every stop...
I do find it amusing that Democrats are complaining about how the media is not treating their candidates fairly. Us Republicans have been saying that for at least 20 years....

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514397
The race didn't start out this way... If you go back and look, Hilary Clinton had more black voter support than Obama... What the typical black voter doesn't like about Clinton is her politics and the way that the Clinton campaign has attacked Obama. They realize that many of their view are similar, but Clinton lost this support after S.C. after what happened there, and what continues to happen with the various remarks made by them. I believe that most of black voters have respect for the Clintons.. but they also realize that the Clintons may not always have our best interest in mind, and will do what benefits them first.
Is it too much to ask that voters look past gender and race and vote for a candidate that will do what's best for the country?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514378
They've already attacked him on racial and background issues...He's the most attacked candidate in the race..He's fighting both Clinton and McCain.
lol, I wouldn't go nearly that far. He has tons of serious serious problems that haven't even been touched. He has been getting a policy pass as far as some of the absolutely absurd things he is pitching. VS hilary and her DL for illegals

[hr]
up. And That total hit piece on McCain the other day with almost nothing in the article.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2514402
lol, welcome to being a Republican...
I challenge you to find a single press article in a major newspaper a 10th as critical of Obama that the hatchet job NYTimes piece recently was of McCain.
Right now the major media is split over who to endorse, so they are running attack pieces in both directions. That said, Nationally, NO Way is Obama the most attacked candidate. If he was he would be answering questions about Al Qaeda in Iraq, Rezko, etc. at every stop...
I do find it amusing that Democrats are complaining about how the media is not treating their candidates fairly. Us Republicans have been saying that for at least 20 years....
I completely disagree... this thing with McCain was his only serious media attack.. Clinton hasn't had any serious attacks that I can think of... She should be being attacked about her past financial deals and her income taxes, which she has failed to produce...
Obama- questioned about
Farrakhan
His race
His background
Is he a muslim
Picture of him in Africa
Rezko
His church
Pledge of Alliegence
Lack of a flag pin
His name
Speeches
Wife
Drugs or he was "dealer"
What else am I missing.... these are all things outside of politics and his campaign.. I am sure he would welcome questions about Iraq... atleast these are sustanitive issues that affect America. If you don't see this than you are blind! Obama hasn't attacked other candidates as he has been attacked.
If you can find a list as long as this about issues, outside of the real issues than I will denounce and reject my position on this.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514430
Obama hasn't attacked other candidates as he has been attacked.
Is a different idea than what I thought you have said. There is little argument that he has not been lobbing stupid bombs over the fence to Hillary.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514430
I completely disagree... this thing with McCain was his only serious media attack.. Clinton hasn't had any serious attacks that I can think of... She should be being attacked about her past financial deals and her income taxes, which she has failed to produce...
Obama- questioned about
Farrakhan
His race
His background
Is he a muslim
Picture of him in Africa
Rezko
His church
Pledge of Alliegence
Lack of a flag pin
His name
Speeches
Wife
Drugs or he was "dealer"
What else am I missing.... these are all things outside of politics and his campaign.. I am sure he would welcome questions about Iraq... atleast these are sustanitive issues that affect America. If you don't see this than you are blind! Obama hasn't attacked other candidates as he has been attacked.
If you can find a list as long as this about issues, outside of the real issues than I will denounce and reject my position on this.
*Farrakhan-Questioned about it? Please. Not nearly enough. As I've pointed out before, if McCain's pastor gave a lifetime achievement award to a KKK Grand Dragon there would be a few more questions to him, don't you think?
*His race-Show me a link where he was attacked or questioned about his race by the major media.
*Background-Fair game. That said, again show me an interview or major news media story where his possible ties to islamic indoctrination camps as a child has been explored.
*Same as above. Show me a link to a major media source questioning this. furthmore, show me a major media source saying it might be a negative (Then look at Romney and his religion... and compare the coverage)
*Pic of him in Africa- Not a major media issue. Leaked onto the web. In fact, the major media quickly began running pics of President Bush in various costumes to justify Obama's pic.
*Rezko- LOL, this hasn't received near the media it deserves. Show me a front page article discussing how Obama went in with a shady "friend" who was under investigation at the time of the business deal.
*His church- Again, show me a major article done on his church. I'll be happy to show you multiple articles attacking Romney and his Mormon faith.
*pledge, flag pin, name- Where has he been attacked for this?
*speeches- Umm, of course the media will show these. Where has he been attacked?
*Wife- Outright, JUST THE OPPOSITE. I can show you multiple sources or major news outlets that tried to cover up her "never been proud of my country" comment. She spoke twice the same day, the first speech is the one where she left out the word "really", yet all the the major news sources tried to bury that fact and only showed the second speech. FURTHERMORE, show me any major news source that has examined why her paycheck tripled when her husband became a Senator...
*Drugs- He wrote about his drug use. That didn't come from the media. Nor did the major media ever say he was dealing drugs.
I hope you have some better example Rylan. All you have done is pick various criticisms of Obama, some legit, and said the media is attacking him... The reality is many of these topics have been ignored by the media.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514397
The race didn't start out this way... If you go back and look, Hilary Clinton had more black voter support than Obama... What the typical black voter doesn't like about Clinton is her politics and the way that the Clinton campaign has attacked Obama. They realize that many of their view are similar, but Clinton lost this support after S.C. after what happened there, and what continues to happen with the various remarks made by them. I believe that most of black voters have respect for the Clintons.. but they also realize that the Clintons may not always have our best interest in mind, and will do what benefits them first.
The "typical Black Voter" gave better than 80% of their vote to the Clinton campaign tactics all through the 90's. They also voted 80% in favor of Obama in the South Carolina Primary, before brother bill put his foot in his mouth.

 

[oscardeuce]

"We spend more on healthcare, but when it comes to life expectancy, the money we spend on healthcare doesn't add up."
True and false. Life expectancy has gone up over the last 50 years due to research, new medications, new procedures, and new equipment. Now, last I read something like 60-80% of your lifetime healthcare spending happens in the last year or so of life. We have nursing homes full of people with dementia, and such who need 100% care, get expensive dialysis, cardiac catheterizations, etc. Now as a society trying to cut down costs is it ethical to withhold this treatment from some patients as the outcome will not be changed, just delayed? Who should make that decision: Doctors, Lawyers, the Family, or the Gov't? The answer to that question is well above my pay grade. In the UK, no dialysis if you are over a certain age, on the national plan ( unless you can afford to buy it outside the national plan.
"however the Bush Admin has done nothing but make it more difficult to get a quality education... Colleges have raised tuitions by 35% over the last 5 years or so. Its more difficult to get loans and rates are higher.."
Since when has it been the job of the government ( esp federal) to make sure product X is less expensive? Gov't price controls worked just great in the Soviet Union didn't they?! Where is that in the Constitution?
Again, could the states help with tuition, but then get service? Possibly, that is up to the voters of the state. If you want to live in a more socialistic state, move to CA, Mass, Vermont. If you want less gov't move to a state with less. What happened to the Pioneer spirit which founded and expanded our country? There is no way the current entitlement mindset would have settled the West. Can you see Laura Ingalls Wilder and her family waiting for the gov't to build their "Little House"? We've moved from the pioneer spirit, to the entitlement spirit. Everyone seems to want something for nothing.
I wanted to be a physician since I first saw the "Emergency" TV show in the 1970's. I spent hours studying in highschool, and college. I killed myself in medical school, and did 100+ hour weeks as a resident with 36-48 hour "days" on duty. I still work 60+ hours/week. I go days without seeing my family. Nobody gave me anything I earned it. You want your doctor to say he or she is there by "entitlement", or by hard work and educating their minds and bodies. None of my friends in medicine would do it again if we had to do it all over. I almost quit medicine. Until one day God spoke to me through a 12 month old patient. He choked on food and was brought to our ED basically dead. Our team resusitated the child. I spoke with Mom and Dad about their son's prognosis. I was a shoulder to cry on. Later that night I called to check on the child. He was doing fine, the breathig tube already removed. He left the hospital 2 days later. He was 100% normal. If any of the team had not been perfect, the child would have died or worse. God told me to stay in medicine. The job is tough and thankless at times, but nowhere can you impact a life more greatly.
"If you look at the inflation of the healthcare system and the rate of growth in medical costs... its crazy... The system needs to be fixed... it costs way more to medicate the symptom, which is what we do, than to treat the cause... "

 

[oscardeuce]

Con't
Where do you fix the system?
Are the providers ( MD,DO<RN< PA< NP< LPN) making too much money? Should drug companies be required to spend on average about $100 million dollars to bring a drug to market? Should we reform malpractice laws, finding no fault with the provider as long as no malice was intended ( the same as the media)? I made $15/hour as a resident based on a 40 hour work week, my average was 80 hours. should residents make less?
Should we stop developement of new scanners, drugs and procedures to cut costs ( Obama would like to do that with defense spending)? No the toughest question ( I'm not advocating this either) should we spend less on expensive procedures for patients not likely to benefit? Should all insurance companies be nonprofit, or required to take losses? SHould all hospitals be non profit, and operate in the red? Nevada lost its only trauma center a few years ago ue to the high costs of the uninsured. Should illegal aliens be denied health care unless they pay up front? Should the Michelle Obama's of the world who are in the hospital ivory towers be making 2-3+ times what the front line physicians are making? I know she makes at least 2.5-3 time what I make. I don;t think she has saved a single life for that money. She has not told a family their daughter is not coming home from prom for that money. She hasn't told someone they have cancer for that money. I have, and every day I have more regulations to comply with. In fact we hired a "Compliance Officer" just to be sure all our I's are dotted and T's crossed. In one year, my group's malpractice insurance went from $60,000/ 6 ED docs to $400,000/year for the same docs WITHOUT a claim against us.
In summary, we do need to get back to the rugged individualist, pioneer spirit that made this country great. We need to get away from the lazy entitlement spirit we currently have. We need to stop having candidates campaign on how they can outspend the other.

 

[zman1]

State of Health should be a concern...
US Life expectancy: 77.8 years - McCain will be 72 if he's elected on the day he is sworn in. The statistics I think were quoted that 66 % survival rate over a 10 year period from the type of cancer he had in 2000. This would reduce his life expectancy by any responsible risk manger out there. I want a person that will actually have a better than average chance to live in the world they created after leaving office. Please do go to Regan, he was exhibiting early signs of Alzheimer's while in his second term. McCain will be the oldest President elected in his first term. Youth has it's advantages....

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2514467
*Farrakhan-Questioned about it? Please. Not nearly enough. As I've pointed out before, if McCain's pastor gave a lifetime achievement award to a KKK Grand Dragon there would be a few more questions to him, don't you think?
*His race-Show me a link where he was attacked or questioned about his race by the major media.
*Background-Fair game. That said, again show me an interview or major news media story where his possible ties to islamic indoctrination camps as a child has been explored.
*Same as above. Show me a link to a major media source questioning this. furthmore, show me a major media source saying it might be a negative (Then look at Romney and his religion... and compare the coverage)
*Pic of him in Africa- Not a major media issue. Leaked onto the web. In fact, the major media quickly began running pics of President Bush in various costumes to justify Obama's pic.
*Rezko- LOL, this hasn't received near the media it deserves. Show me a front page article discussing how Obama went in with a shady "friend" who was under investigation at the time of the business deal.
*His church- Again, show me a major article done on his church. I'll be happy to show you multiple articles attacking Romney and his Mormon faith.
*pledge, flag pin, name- Where has he been attacked for this?
*speeches- Umm, of course the media will show these. Where has he been attacked?
*Wife- Outright, JUST THE OPPOSITE. I can show you multiple sources or major news outlets that tried to cover up her "never been proud of my country" comment. She spoke twice the same day, the first speech is the one where she left out the word "really", yet all the the major news sources tried to bury that fact and only showed the second speech. FURTHERMORE, show me any major news source that has examined why her paycheck tripled when her husband became a Senator...
*Drugs- He wrote about his drug use. That didn't come from the media. Nor did the major media ever say he was dealing drugs.
I hope you have some better example Rylan. All you have done is pick various criticisms of Obama, some legit, and said the media is attacking him... The reality is many of these topics have been ignored by the media.
These are all attacks that Obama has had to defend.. either in a debate.. or in a Speech... or through his campaign.. Regardless if you feel these are creditable or not... these are things he's had to defend... You say that people are taking it easy on him... I totally disagree... These are things that either the other candidates have brought up, or the media... Now lets compare the other candidates ... and you'll see Obama hasn't had it easy.
I'm not going to go through all the remarks you made because of a time issue, but I believe 60 minutes or something like it sent a reporter to the school he went to as a child to explore this.
Flag Pin issue has been brought up by everyone..CNN, FOX, MSNBC.. etc
Speeches-- Did he plagerize?
Race-- Is America ready for a black prez, all the comments about if he were white... or is he black enough... etc... This is not just about what the media says, but what is reported in the media by what candidates, their campaigns, and supporters say...Its all the same and is reported the same.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2514643
Con't
Where do you fix the system?
Are the providers ( MD,DO<RN< PA< NP< LPN) making too much money? Should drug companies be required to spend on average about $100 million dollars to bring a drug to market? Should we reform malpractice laws, finding no fault with the provider as long as no malice was intended ( the same as the media)? I made $15/hour as a resident based on a 40 hour work week, my average was 80 hours. should residents make less?
Should we stop developement of new scanners, drugs and procedures to cut costs ( Obama would like to do that with defense spending)? No the toughest question ( I'm not advocating this either) should we spend less on expensive procedures for patients not likely to benefit? Should all insurance companies be nonprofit, or required to take losses? SHould all hospitals be non profit, and operate in the red? Nevada lost its only trauma center a few years ago ue to the high costs of the uninsured. Should illegal aliens be denied health care unless they pay up front? Should the Michelle Obama's of the world who are in the hospital ivory towers be making 2-3+ times what the front line physicians are making? I know she makes at least 2.5-3 time what I make. I don;t think she has saved a single life for that money. She has not told a family their daughter is not coming home from prom for that money. She hasn't told someone they have cancer for that money. I have, and every day I have more regulations to comply with. In fact we hired a "Compliance Officer" just to be sure all our I's are dotted and T's crossed. In one year, my group's malpractice insurance went from $60,000/ 6 ED docs to $400,000/year for the same docs WITHOUT a claim against us.
In summary, we do need to get back to the rugged individualist, pioneer spirit that made this country great. We need to get away from the lazy entitlement spirit we currently have. We need to stop having candidates campaign on how they can outspend the other.
I don't have time to respond to everything here, I'll try to readdress later, but I think malpractice should have a limit

 

[oscardeuce]

"Now lets compare the other candidates ... and you'll see Obama hasn't had it easy."
Well, the NY Times isn't making up affairs are they?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2514669
State of Health should be a concern...
US Life expectancy: 77.8 years - McCain will be 72 if he's elected on the day he is sworn in. The statistics I think were quoted that 66 % survival rate over a 10 year period from the type of cancer he had in 2000. This would reduce his life expectancy by any responsible risk manger out there. I want a person that will actually have a better than average chance to live in the world they created after leaving office. Please do go to Regan, he was exhibiting early signs of Alzheimer's while in his second term. McCain will be the oldest President elected in his first term. Youth has it's advantages....
As does being a Non-Smoker...

 

[1journeyman]

Rylan, the bulk of your examples are either issues brought up in the DNC debates, or issues brought up by his competitors. Those aren't examples of the media attacking him.
Media Watchdog Groups have consistently found Obama gets more favorable coverage statistically.
Dated Feb 1:
"Since mid-December, when the presidential candidates turned their full attention to the Iowa caucuses, Sen. Barack Obama has led the race for good press and Sen. Hillary Clinton has lagged the farthest behind. From Dec 16 through Jan 27 five out of six on-air evaluations of Obama (84%) have been favorable, compared to a bare majority (51%) of evaluations of Mrs. Clinton. Examples:
“[Obama’s] message is one of change and reconciliation, not protest and looking back at old wounds.” – Donna Brazile, ABC
“In the face of two staggering defeats, two questions loom: Is Hillary’s campaign in crisis? And is a massive shakeup necessary?” – Brit Hume, FOX"
http://www.cmpa.com/election%20news%202_1_08.htm
"And then there's the press. A study by the Center for Media and Public Affairs says that from December 16 to February 19, an astounding — are you ready for this? — 84 percent of network news reports on Barack Obama were favorable. Eighty-four percent. And Hillary Clinton, the number was 53 percent. Very high, favorable." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334789,00.html

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514378
They've already attacked him on racial and background issues...He's the most attacked candidate in the race..He's fighting both Clinton and McCain.

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514430
I completely disagree... this thing with McCain was his only serious media attack.. Clinton hasn't had any serious attacks that I can think of... She should be being attacked about her past financial deals and her income taxes, which she has failed to produce...
Obama- questioned about
Farrakhan
His race
His background
Is he a muslim
Picture of him in Africa
Rezko
His church
Pledge of Alliegence
Lack of a flag pin
His name
Speeches
Wife
Drugs or he was "dealer"
What else am I missing.... these are all things outside of politics and his campaign.. I am sure he would welcome questions about Iraq... atleast these are sustanitive issues that affect America. If you don't see this than you are blind! Obama hasn't attacked other candidates as he has been attacked.
If you can find a list as long as this about issues, outside of the real issues than I will denounce and reject my position on this.

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2514692
These are all attacks that Obama has had to defend.. either in a debate.. or in a Speech... or through his campaign.. Regardless if you feel these are creditable or not... these are things he's had to defend... You say that people are taking it easy on him... I totally disagree... These are things that either the other candidates have brought up, or the media... Now lets compare the other candidates ... and you'll see Obama hasn't had it easy.
I'm not going to go through all the remarks you made because of a time issue, but I believe 60 minutes or something like it sent a reporter to the school he went to as a child to explore this.
Flag Pin issue has been brought up by everyone..CNN, FOX, MSNBC.. etc
Speeches-- Did he plagerize?
Race-- Is America ready for a black prez, all the comments about if he were white... or is he black enough... etc... This is not just about what the media says, but what is reported in the media by what candidates, their campaigns, and supporters say...Its all the same and is reported the same.
Are we going to now argue who is the bigger cry baby?

On a serious note. This isn't that bad. It just is fun to watch democrats turn their machine on their own people.

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2513589
What is your backround by the way?
How in the world would a single payer system be cheaper than a privatized system?
.
Back round? I resent that. I think my back is very hot, if I do say so myself....
I only have my own experience with Medicare and Private insurance. I see one system being cost effecient and they other is making a lot of people filthy rich.

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2513962
Why isn't Obama's smoking brought up more often?
I submit that McCain, a 69 year old, is about as likely these days to pass on as is a long-term 44 year old smoker, Obama.
I submit that a 71 year old with a history of melanoma has around a 10 x's greater chance to pass on than a 44 year old man.
I would think the people who are voting for him now, would want to know if his melanoma is metastasized to his lungs or his brain. If his nodes are clean, and he is cancer free, why should it be a secret?

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by mfp1016
http:///forum/post/2513966
They can't, and won't.

They? Are you asking my opinion? Or someone else?

 

[suzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2514048
young, hot, articulate, and unable to find Iraq on a map....
You know, that is not how I see him. I've watched every debate, even the GOP ones, and I think he is a incredibly intelligent guy. He had quick responses every time, and a quick wit. He is at the top of his career ladder at a young age, younger than most to get where he is. Why do you think he is stupid?