Obama supporters. I have one question

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Alex4286
http:///forum/post/2524067
overall Obama is the better person in my opinion.
he has a lot to say on illegal immigration ...
hillary wants to make Medicare free.. ...
Obama is for giving illegals driver licenses...
Obama is also for universal health care.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2524075
Yes. I am saying that. Dead serious. Look around at the women you know. Could one of them do this to an almost full term baby, who is moving in her womb? You want to believe that our country is full of evil creepy women more than you want to believe your party is using this issue.
SENATOR OBAMA did not support the bill the the same reason your party did nothing about the issue when the could have. It is a fund raiser.
You keep saying the Republicans did nothing, ignoring the obvious fact that they did far more than the Democrats ever have... No, that's not exactly true. The Democrats gave us Roe V Wade in the form of liberally appointed judges.
More history of abortion in the USA:
"A bill to ban the procedure except when it is necessary to save a woman's life was adopted by the U.S. Congress (Republicans) but vetoed by President Bill Clinton in the spring of 1996"
Suzy, as sad as it is, not all late term abortions are done "for the good of the fetus".
So, as important as abortion is, Obombus used it to raise money? I'm glad he's not tied to any special interest groups...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2524086
Well, what if the people who SAY they want to overturn RVW didn't actually pass a bill to try? 6 years of complete control and we get a bill that affects zippo. Strong work, I say.
Yeesh.. please understand the basics of how our government functions. The Supreme Court ruled on Roe v Wade. Congress, therefore, cannot pass a law outright going against Roe v Wade. (It was a liberal supreme court that decided R v W, btw). The Supreme Court cannot simply ignore previous Supreme Court precedence.
An Amendment to the Constitution is currently the only avenue to "ban" abortions.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2524081
Of course it did. It was over 6 years. Did it increase at the rate it did before he was in? Our revenue goes up no matter who is in, just like gas prices, food prices go up. Are you saying the rates of increases after a tax cut are higher that when we actually pay our bills?
Who is going to pay that 9 trillion, JM? Another tax cut so revenues will skyrocket like they are now?
No the actual dollar amount increased despite the decreased tax rate, at higher growth percentages than were projected. Actually it reversed a trend seen in the end of the clinton term where the growth was diminishing vs previous years... But like all liberals facts aren't important.
 

zman1

Active Member
Just face the facts, another booming economy driven into the grown by yet another Republican...
Please stop Corporate Welfare. Republicans need to start their own grass roots movement to support the mismanagement and greed. Call it Corp Aid. I am sure there would be a huge turn out....
 

reefraff

Active Member
You hear these BS stories on the blogs all the time about "lifelong Republicans" who are voting for Obama. There isn't a chance in hell an issues driven Republican will vote for Obama. That would be like someone saying they were a lifelong Democrat who was suddenly going to vote for Rick Santorum.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2522982
When was the last time I chose to live in a house, built below sea level, in a city surrounded on 3 sides by water in a coast line prone to hurricanes? And, to top it off, I chose to not follow the MANDANTORY evacuation orders?
Just using your post to provide the following as to why many folks live in New Orleans and the surrounding area.....
Several key US interests reside in the New Orleans area. The Port of New Orleans supports much of the US...you only have to look at the route the river takes thrugh the country. Second, many oil refineries exist along the river between NO and baton Rouge. This area is also called cancer corridor due to the unusal high rate of cancer (assumed to be chemical exposure to the various industries along this route between NO and Baton Rouge serving the country). Third, offshore drilling in the Gulf (so we all can have less dependence on foreign oil) has caused problems to the wetlands...a natural barrier to hurricanes . Dredging of waterways so equipment can be moved off-shore has lead to saltwater intrusion which has killed much of the wetlands. FOurth, in order to provide services for all the above, the city grew as people moved to the area to work in the above industires/areas.
In the 1990's, a plan was brought forward during the CLinton years to protect this area against a Cat 5 storm..price tag was 20 billion (how much did Katrina cost?)...never left the ground. I only mention the above points to illustrate the national interest in this area to protect it. Many past presidents both Republican and Democrat simply gambled that the big one would not hit the area on their watch.
Why did New Orleans Flood? Three reasons...... coastal errosion in part caused by the oil industry..a natrual barrier for water has beed significantly reduced, the Army Corps of Engineers levee design flaw (they've admitted it) uncovered in the mid-90's, and the MIss. River Gulf Outlet (MRGO) AKA Mister Go, which serves no real pupose and it too was built by the US Army Corps of Engineers.
Why did people fail to evacuate? having lived in the city for 40 years..some people just will not leave period. It was well known this would be a problem. Unless you forced people out by gun point...many simply will not leave. That was a calculated mistake they made.
Was the federal ,local and state response adequate..no. Bush already admitted his mistakes...more so than the governor at the time and mayor. I give him credit for admitting it.
There are many reasons why people live in the City...some live there to work in the industries which provide goods and services such as the Port of NO with national interest to the US and abroad.
If we closed the Port of New Orleans, shut down the refineries and sent the oil industry on it's way in the LA Gulf waters...what impact would this have nationally? The US government had and still has a vested interest to protect the greater New Orleans area.
No one forced folks to live there...but people have to in order to work in the industries and areas serving the national economy and america in general.
I have SEVERAL freinds that live or lived in the New Orleans area that commuted to the refineries...and also worked offshore in the oil industry. many businesses that reside or resided in NO support the industires I have discussed. People have a tendency to live close to where they work for obvious reasons. If nobody lived in this hurricane area...what would the price of gas be...how about shipping up and doen the Ms River? Etc, etc, etc.
While I agree people did make a choice to live there..many did so supporting and working in businesses that provide goods and serives many americans enjoy and need.
The water that surrounds the city also provides commerce , goods and services to much of the country. Which is why it SHOULD be adequately protected.
 

bdhutier

Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2523962
I am proud of our communities disaster plans. The last drill we did, we had all three hospital chains, the local fire fighters and p[olice teams, the EMTs group, even had LifeFlight land.
So, do all your discussions with others with differing views than yours involve insults?
Suzy, it's not an insult. I'm speaking based on my experience as a former emergency manager in health care. It's VERY rare to find even department directors who are aware of the facility emergency mgt/operations plans, and chances are the plans are lackluster to begin with. Not everyone's in that boat, but I'd venture to say most are. Of course, with the new JC EC 4x requirements, this hopefully will change.
First responders exercising with the first receivers is nothing very special, IMO. It's like being proud you ate today... you were supposed to eat anyway.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2524640
You hear these BS stories on the blogs all the time about "lifelong Republicans" who are voting for Obama. There isn't a chance in hell an issues driven Republican will vote for Obama. That would be like someone saying they were a lifelong Democrat who was suddenly going to vote for Rick Santorum.
I'm sure there COULD be a few out there...but hard for me to beleive as well.
Interesting day today...Nobama admitted in his speech that he now was present when some of the hate and racist poison was spewed by his good friend. Hmmm..thought he said last week he never heard it and was not present.......liar?
Appears Nobama reamins a supporter of the racist hater.

I must have missed this point...but heard the tapes shown actually were sold by the church. If this was not a central message/theme of this church...why were they hocking it?

it appears now that Nobama has been smoked out of his hate filled church.....he wants to be the race relations champion. I applaud him for this and have but one request of him......please start with your pastor.

Also heard that the CLitnotn folks are now boycotting the democratic site the daliykos due to the hatred they are experiencing on the site...does that sound like a UNIFIED party to you?

Looks like Nobama's judgement and close associations will now be questioned further?
. I beleive this is not the end but just the beginning of the pastor hater story. Will we soon be hearing about his "judgement" regarding Rezko and Ayers?

Put a fork in Nobama...he's done..and so are the democrats in the general.
To quote a phrase I recenltly heard screamed...the chickens are coming home to roost..from the FAR LEFT.

America will reject Nobama...he's at about where I predicted he would be 40%.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Yeah, this is the kinda candidate Republicans support
Obama’s International Socialist Connections
AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | February 14, 2008
The socialist connections of Obama and the Democratic Party have certainly not been featured in the Washington Post columns of Harold Meyerson, who happens not only to be a member but a vice-chair of the DSA.
Campaign workers for Senator and presidential candidate Barack Obama are under fire for displaying a flag featuring communist hero Che Guevara. But Obama has his own controversial socialist connections. He is, in fact, an associate of a Chicago-based Marxist group with access to millions of labor union dollars and connections to expert political consultants, including a convicted swindler.
Obama's socialist backing goes back at least to 1996, when he received the endorsement of the Chicago branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for an Illinois state senate seat. Later, the Chicago DSA newsletter reported that Obama, as a state senator, showed up to eulogize Saul Mendelson, one of the "champions" of "Chicago's democratic left" and a long-time socialist activist. Obama's stint as a "community organizer" in Chicago has gotten some attention, but his relationship with the DSA socialists, who groomed and backed him, has been generally ignored.
Blogger Steve Bartin, who has been following Obama's career and involvement with the Chicago socialists, has uncovered a fascinating video showing Obama campaigning for openly socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Interestingly, Sanders, who won his seat in 2006, called Obama "one of the great leaders of the United States Senate," even though Obama had only been in the body for about two years. In 2007, the National Journal said that Obama had established himself as "the most liberal Senator." More liberal than Sanders? That is quite a feat. Does this make Obama a socialist, too?
DSA describes itself as the largest socialist organization in the United States and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International. The Socialist International (SI) has what is called "consultative status" with the United Nations. In other words, it works hand-in-glove with the world body.
The international connection is important and significant because an Obama bill, "The Global Poverty Act," has just been rushed through the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, with the assistance of Democratic Senator Joe Biden, the chairman, and Republican Senator Richard Lugar. The legislation (S.2433) commits the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars more in foreign aid on the rest of the world, in order to comply with the "Millennium Goals" established by the United Nations. Conservative members of the committee were largely caught off-guard by the move to pass the Obama bill but are putting a "hold" on it, in order to try to prevent the legislation, which also quickly passed the House, from being quickly brought up for a full Senate vote. But observers think that Senate Democrats may try to pass it quickly anyway, in order to give Obama a precious legislative "victory" that he could run on.
Another group associated with the SI is the Party of European Socialists (PES), which heard from Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, back in 2006. Dean's speech is posted on the official Democratic Party website, although the European socialist parties are referred to as "progressive." Democrats, Dean said, want to be "good citizens of the world community." He spoke at a session on "Global Challenges for Progressive Politics."
Following up, in April 2007, PES President Poul Nyrup Rasmussen reported that European socialists held a meeting "in the Democrats HQ in Washington," met with officials of the party and Democratic members of Congress, and agreed that "PES activist groups" in various U.S. cities would start working together. The photos of the trip show Rasmussen meeting with such figures as Senator Ben Cardin, Senator Bernie Sanders, officials of the Brookings Institution, Howard Dean, and AFL-CIO President John W. Sweeney, a member of the DSA. The Brookings Institution is headed by former Clinton State Department official Strobe Talbott, a proponent of world government who was recently identified in the book Comrade J as having been a pawn of the Russian intelligence service.
Cont.
 

reefraff

Active Member
The socialist connections of Obama and the Democratic Party have certainly not been featured in the Washington Post columns of Harold Meyerson, who happens not only to be a member but a vice-chair of the DSA. Meyerson, the subject of our 2005 column, "A Socialist at the Washington Post," has praised convicted inside-trader George Soros for manipulating campaign finance laws to benefit the far-left elements of the Democratic Party. Obama's success in the Democratic presidential primaries and caucuses is further evidence of Soros's success. Indeed, Soros has financially contributed to the Obama campaign.
It is not surprising that the Chicago Democrat, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, has endorsed Obama. Schakowsky, who endorsed Howard Dean for president in 2004, was honored in 2000 at a dinner sponsored by the Chicago chapter of the DSA. Her husband, Robert Creamer, emerged from federal prison in November 2006 after serving five months for financial crimes. He pleaded guilty to ripping off financial institutions while running a non-profit group. Before he was convicted but under indictment, Creamer was hired by the Soros-funded Open Society Policy Center to sabotage John Bolton's nomination as Ambassador to the U.N.
After his release from prison, Creamer released a book, Listen to Your Mother: Stand up Straight: How Progressives Can Win, described by one blogger as the book that was "penned in the pen." A blurb for the book declares, "Some people think that in order to win, Democrats need to move to the political center by adopting conservative values and splitting the difference between progressive and conservative positions. History shows they are wrong. To win the next election and to win in the long term, we need to redefine the political center."
In addition to writing the book, Creamer is back in business, running his firm, Strategic Consulting Group, and advertising himself as "a consultant to the campaigns to end the war in Iraq, pass universal health care, change America's budget priorities and enact comprehensive immigration reform." His clients have included the AFL-CIO and MoveOn.org. In fact, his client list is a virtual who's who of the Democratic Party, organized labor, and Democratic Party constituency groups.
Creamer's list of testimonials comes from such figures as Democratic Senators ---- Durbin (Ill.) and Sherrod Brown (Ohio), Harold Meyerson, MoveOn.org founder Wes Boyd, and David Axelrod, a "Democratic political consultant."
Axelrod, of course, is much more than just a "Democratic political consultant." He helped State Senator Barack Obama win his U.S. Senate seat in 2004 and currently serves as strategist and media advisor to Obama's presidential campaign.
 

reefraff

Active Member
And funny how Hobama's supporters keep bringing up Republicans out of control spending. Well, at least they kept the money in our country
AIM Says Media Cover-Up Obama’s Socialist-Oriented Global Tax Bill
Press Release | February 13, 2008
WASHINGTON, February 13, 2008 -- Accuracy in Media editor Cliff Kincaid disclosed today that a hugely expensive bill called the "Global Poverty Act," sponsored by Democratic Senator Barack Obama, was quickly passed by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States. Kincaid said that the major media's cover-up of the bill, which makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations, demonstrates the media's desire to see Senator Obama elected to the presidency.
In a column posted on the AIM web site, Kincaid noted that Senator Joe Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was trying to rush Obama's "Global Poverty Act" (S. 2433) through his committee without hearings. The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends. It was scheduled for a Thursday vote but was moved up a day, to Wednesday, and rushed through by voice vote. Kincaid learned, however, that conservative Senators have now put a "hold" on the legislation, in order to prevent it from being rushed to the floor for a full Senate vote.
The House version (H.R. 1302) was suddenly brought up on the House floor last September 25 and was passed by voice vote. House Republicans were caught off-guard, unaware that the pro-U.N. measure committed the U.S. to spending hundreds of billions of dollars. Kincaid's column notes that the official in charge of making nations comply with the U.N. Millennium Goals, which are prominently highlighted in the Obama bill, says a global tax will be necessary to force American taxpayers to provide the money.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Suzy
http:///forum/post/2524025
You show me they have a government. All they have now is a puppet show. When we do leave, what will be left will be their government. All they have now is what we told them to have. So, why even ask them? Let's just ask Faux news.
Here's your link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S95z0F-2Wc4
General Touts Achievements in Iraq
By Fred Lucas
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
March 06, 2008
Washington (CNSNews.com) - In the last week of October 2007, there were 30 attacks on U.S. soldiers in the Anbar province of Iraq, just one-tenth as many as the previous year, according to U.S. Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, who spoke at a conference on the war on Wednesday.
He further noted that civilian deaths in Iraq have fallen by 70 percent in less than a year, and by November 2007, the number of insurgent attacks in Iraq had dropped to their lowest level since 2004.
The surge has worked and continues to work, said Odierno.
"Obviously, it's too early to declare victory and go home, but I think it's safe to say that the surge of coalition forces - but just as important, how we employed those forces - has broken the cycle of sectarian violence in Iraq," Odierno told a crowd of about 100 people at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank.
Odierno was the commander of the Multi-National Corps-Iraq from December 2006 to February 2008. He served directly under Gen. David Petraeus in overseeing the surge of 30,000 troops into Iraq, a plan that started in January 2007 and really accelerated in June 2007.
Odierno, hailed in the latest edition of The Weekly Standard magazine as the "Patton of Counterinsurgency" - a reference to Gen. George Patton of World War II - is about to become the vice chief of staff for the U.S. Army.
"Implementing the surge involved much more than throwing extra resources at a problem," he said.
"It meant committing ourselves to protecting the Iraqi populace with a priority in Baghdad, while exploiting what appeared to be a decent progress against Al Qaeda in Anbar. It meant changing our mindsets as we secured the people where they worked and slept and where their children played," Odierno added.
Helpful in this effort, said Odierno, was the "Sons of Iraq," a grassroots group of Sunni Arabs who joined forces with the American troops and Iraqi government and formed neighborhood watches to combat al Qaeda. The group has become an effective security force, the general said.
"We were able to keep young Sunni men away from extremism, provide jobs and income, and gain valuable intelligence on the insurgency, which included finding improvised explosive devices and large caches of ammunition," said Odierno.
The organization has branched out to include Shi'ites and sometimes mixed groups.
"They wanted to be a legitimate part of the government of Iraq," said Odierno. "Every dollar paid to the 'Sons of Iraq' is spent at least two additional times as they provide for their families, and then local markets buy wholesale goods to stock their stands. In places where we have employed the 'Sons of Iraq,' we have a ten-fold increase in markets."
The general said an important challenge facing the Iraqi government would be engaging Iran as a trade partner while also holding them accountable for militants that launch attacks in Iraq.
Stressing the positive, the general said that IED explosions, one of the biggest threats to soldiers, have dropped dramatically, thanks mostly to help from Iraqi citizens.
Also, the Iraqi government has passed important legislation, such as a budget. Further, the granting of amnesty to those who served in Saddam Hussein's government has been an important step in fostering reconciliation in the country.
"There was much sacrifice to achieve these gains," said Odierno. "Let us all never forget those whose lives have been changed forever because of injuries, and for those who gave their lives fighting for the ideas of liberty as well as their loved ones. Their sacrifices were not in vain. And because of them, the Iraqis have the right to choose their own destiny."
 

stdreb27

Active Member
This is what I don't understand, zman and other liberals can only point to one indicator and 2 presidents for their argument that republicans are irresponsible spenders. And they only point to one democratic president who had a balanced budget and use that as proof positive that democrats are the way to go. They fail to look into the politics involved with the budget not running into the red. They ignore the facts such as the republican lead congress forced shutdowns of government to attempt to force fiscal responsibility, they ignore that had clinton passed his socialised medicine plan their is no way in the world that they would have been in the black, they ignore the tax dollar amounts falling short of projections in the final clinton years, they ignore the fact that historically tax rate decreases have actually increased federal coffers. But then again we can't let facts get in the way of what we believe can we.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2524557
Zman -
The more you post the less I believe that you ever were a republican...
That's too far of a drive from any place on the right to where Nobama stands on the FAR LEFT with the most liberal voting record of all senators in 2007 . I suggest flying.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2524718
This is what I don't understand, zman and other liberals can only point to one indicator and 2 presidents for their argument that republicans are irresponsible spenders. And they only point to one democratic president who had a balanced budget and use that as proof positive that democrats are the way to go. They fail to look into the politics involved with the budget not running into the red. They ignore the facts such as the republican lead congress forced shutdowns of government to attempt to force fiscal responsibility, they ignore that had clinton passed his socialised medicine plan their is no way in the world that they would have been in the black, they ignore the tax dollar amounts falling short of projections in the final clinton years, they ignore the fact that historically tax rate decreases have actually increased federal coffers. But then again we can't let facts get in the way of what we believe can we.
And when it turns around they will assign credit to the democratic controlled COngress...or simply move on to surrendering to the terrorists....socialized medicine, raising taxes, class warfare, etc, etc. Gee....sounds like I just described the Nobama platform.
I guess the stock market rebound today was due to the Nobama speech on race this morning.
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2524565
Explain to me exactly how Bush has driven the economy into the ground?
I should correct that - thanks for pointing it out..
Another republican that has raised the national debt to new levels again and driven the economy into the ground. The president holds the reins/steering wheel of the country

I told you many times before. I have finally caught on to the republicans. I am slow, I admit my mistakes for voting for them in the past... You're a young man, in time you will too.
"If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop
telling the truth about them." - Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965)
 
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