Obama supporters. I have one question

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533171
So the insurgents are Al Qaeda?
Quite possibly, yes.
"Insurgent" is a generic term for the terrorists trying to kill Americans and destabilize the Iraqi Government.
Bin Laden, in Oct 07 (taken from ABC News) :Showing apparent signs of concern over events in Iraq, al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden urged insurgents to "unite your lines into one" in an audiotape played on al Jazeera Monday.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533031

The sermon is context uses scripture from when Israel turend their backs on God and the result of that.
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God d--- America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God d--- America for treating our citizens as less than human. God d--- America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
Since God bless America is a prayer and a song. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Is he asking his congregation to pray god d--- america? Because that isn't a warning.
The verb tense is wrong for your argument.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2533143
you've had this corrected numerous times. Al qaeda did have a presence in Iraq. They did not have an "operational" relationship.
As you said, they are there now. Why do you think they would magically go away when we start withdrawing? Where would they go?
Pulling out will lead to more US casualties. The surge has proven that increased numbers make the country more secure.
Well I think this is debatable... I mean you can say Al Qaeda has a presence in the US, UK,... Europe in general..Africa... Asia... But were they operational in Iraq... I think its clear that Iraq did not support Al Qaeda nor did they have links to them... The fact is that our presence fuels the insurgency and recruitment of terrorist... As long as we are there it will continue.... What you also have to take into account about the reduced violence is the role of the local sheiks and the cease fire that is in affect now.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533215
Well I think this is debatable... I mean you can say Al Qaeda has a presence in the US, UK,... Europe in general..Africa... Asia... But were they operational in Iraq... I think its clear that Iraq did not support Al Qaeda nor did they have links to them... The fact is that our presence fuels the insurgency and recruitment of terrorist... As long as we are there it will continue.... What you also have to take into account about the reduced violence is the role of the local sheiks and the cease fire that is in affect now.
This is only debatable if you choose to ignore the facts.
Saddam did not have an "operational" relationship with Al Qaeda. They did have contact, which is documented in the reports you have quoted in the past.
Our presence does NOT fuel the insurgency. The Democratic Government of Iraq is what is fueling the insurgency.
The local sheiks have sided with the USA because they are tired of the "insurgents" killing civilians. They also have seen we are winning and want to be on the winning side. That's all good things, btw.
What you have to take into account is history. We tried to wage the Vietnam war by giving up territory repeatedly after we had occupied it. With the increased troop numbers we hold the cities, towns, villages, etc. and allow the Iraqi's to train and secure their own neighborhoods. (See Fallujah as an example of this working successfully)

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2533211
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God d--- America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God d--- America for treating our citizens as less than human. God d--- America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
Since God bless America is a prayer and a song. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Is he asking his congregation to pray god d--- america? Because that isn't a warning.
The verb tense is wrong for your argument.
As I said you don't have to agree with the sermon, however, these are the feelings of many americans, black in particular who have lived through racism. The gov't has a role in illegal drugs because if wanted to eliminate them we could... We go after terrorist, yet the war on drugs is not being fought abroad where they are grown... We could significantly cut the shippment of drugs if we wanted.. There is also billions being made...I believe that we have a role in it in the bigger picture..at least in turning a blind eye to countries such as China,Afganistan,Mexico,Columbia/S.America..etc Than if look at history and the role the FBI/CIA played in the 60's against Martin Luther King, the SLCC, and other civil rights organizations and people... People who wanted equal rights were considered terrorist organizations... The 3 strike law targets African Americans unporportionatley... they build bigger prisons ..but 80% of the prison population is for drug offenses... The crack/cocaine law is a law that targets blacks... What is it...1 gram of crack is equal to 100 grams of cocaine... So I can understand his sermon...
But he is saying that if America continues down this path ... it will be God --- America... instead of God Bless America.. I agree with Obama about his message not acknowledging the change that has occured... however racism is still rampant... I had 2 innocents this weekend in which I wanted to go to a Bar/Club and denied entrance..."Your pants are too baggy" which if you knew me... I dress very well...I had some express jeans on that fit... my clothes don't hang... this is another issue... but I had to go through this twice this weekend when trying to go out...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2533231
This is only debatable if you choose to ignore the facts.
Saddam did not have an "operational" relationship with Al Qaeda. They did have contact, which is documented in the reports you have quoted in the past.
Our presence does NOT fuel the insurgency. The Democratic Government of Iraq is what is fueling the insurgency.
The local sheiks have sided with the USA because they are tired of the "insurgents" killing civilians. They also have seen we are winning and want to be on the winning side. That's all good things, btw.
What you have to take into account is history. We tried to wage the Vietnam war by giving up territory repeatedly after we had occupied it. With the increased troop numbers we hold the cities, towns, villages, etc. and allow the Iraqi's to train and secure their own neighborhoods. (See Fallujah as an example of this working successfully)
What?

The cease fire is slipping according to reports...may not last long... Saddam knew that the "secret war" would start ...He has said he wanted his troops to stand up and fight conventional for only about 2 weeks... The reports I've seen...Pentagon and Commission report say they are not working together... I mean what does "contact" mean in your perspective?... Either they are working together or they are not...
The Iraq Gov't is not fueling it... its us ... Anyone who wants to work with us is a target... The common denominator is the USA...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533258
As I said you don't have to agree with the sermon, however, these are the feelings of many americans, black in particular who have lived through racism. The gov't has a role in illegal drugs because if wanted to eliminate them we could... We go after terrorist, yet the war on drugs is not being fought abroad where they are grown... We could significantly cut the shippment of drugs if we wanted.. There is also billions being made...I believe that we have a role in it in the bigger picture..at least in turning a blind eye to countries such as China,Afganistan,Mexico,Columbia/S.America..etc Than if look at history and the role the FBI/CIA played in the 60's against Martin Luther King, the SLCC, and other civil rights organizations and people... People who wanted equal rights were considered terrorist organizations... The 3 strike law targets African Americans unporportionatley... they build bigger prisons ..but 80% of the prison population is for drug offenses... The crack/cocaine law is a law that targets blacks... What is it...1 gram of crack is equal to 100 grams of cocaine... So I can understand his sermon...
But he is saying that if America continues down this path ... it will be God --- America... instead of God Bless America.. I agree with Obama about his message not acknowledging the change that has occured... however racism is still rampant... I had 2 innocents this weekend in which I wanted to go to a Bar/Club and denied entrance..."Your pants are too baggy" which if you knew me... I dress very well...I had some express jeans on that fit... my clothes don't hang... this is another issue... but I had to go through this twice this weekend when trying to go out...
Whatever your backround is or isn't, isn't the point, you are arguing that he is saying that If america continues down the pathway to sin, then god will no longer bless and curse america. The thought in and of itself I can bye. But that isn't what he was saying. Who knows maybe a minister of 30 years can't speak english. But he didn't say God will d---, or God had d---, but God d--- America, stated like that isn't a warning but spoken as a prayer just like that song God bless america.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533258
As I said you don't have to agree with the sermon, however, these are the feelings of many americans, black in particular who have lived through racism. The gov't has a role in illegal drugs because if wanted to eliminate them we could... We go after terrorist, yet the war on drugs is not being fought abroad where they are grown... We could significantly cut the shippment of drugs if we wanted.. There is also billions being made...I believe that we have a role in it in the bigger picture..at least in turning a blind eye to countries such as China,Afganistan,Mexico,Columbia/S.America..etc Than if look at history and the role the FBI/CIA played in the 60's against Martin Luther King, the SLCC, and other civil rights organizations and people... People who wanted equal rights were considered terrorist organizations... The 3 strike law targets African Americans unporportionatley... they build bigger prisons ..but 80% of the prison population is for drug offenses... The crack/cocaine law is a law that targets blacks... What is it...1 gram of crack is equal to 100 grams of cocaine... So I can understand his sermon...
But he is saying that if America continues down this path ... it will be God --- America... instead of God Bless America.. I agree with Obama about his message not acknowledging the change that has occured... however racism is still rampant... I had 2 innocents this weekend in which I wanted to go to a Bar/Club and denied entrance..."Your pants are too baggy" which if you knew me... I dress very well...I had some express jeans on that fit... my clothes don't hang... this is another issue... but I had to go through this twice this weekend when trying to go out...
How in the world does the clinton era 3 strikes laws(you remember that party that reaches out to blacks) disproportionately affect blacks? Unless more of them were comitting crimes?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533258
As I said you don't have to agree with the sermon, however, these are the feelings of many americans, black in particular who have lived through racism. The gov't has a role in illegal drugs because if wanted to eliminate them we could... We go after terrorist, yet the war on drugs is not being fought abroad where they are grown... We could significantly cut the shippment of drugs if we wanted.. There is also billions being made...I believe that we have a role in it in the bigger picture..at least in turning a blind eye to countries such as China,Afganistan,Mexico,Columbia/S.America..etc Than if look at history and the role the FBI/CIA played in the 60's against Martin Luther King, the SLCC, and other civil rights organizations and people... People who wanted equal rights were considered terrorist organizations... The 3 strike law targets African Americans unporportionatley... they build bigger prisons ..but 80% of the prison population is for drug offenses... The crack/cocaine law is a law that targets blacks... What is it...1 gram of crack is equal to 100 grams of cocaine... So I can understand his sermon...
But he is saying that if America continues down this path ... it will be God --- America... instead of God Bless America.. I agree with Obama about his message not acknowledging the change that has occured... however racism is still rampant... I had 2 innocents this weekend in which I wanted to go to a Bar/Club and denied entrance..."Your pants are too baggy" which if you knew me... I dress very well...I had some express jeans on that fit... my clothes don't hang... this is another issue... but I had to go through this twice this weekend when trying to go out...
The War on Drugs is being fought on every Continent Rylan. I have a friend who until recently was an Avionics Tech on the DEA's aircraft. He traveled to 3 continents to repair equipment that I can think of. Sorry, it is being fought worldwide.
How does 3 strikes or drug laws target any particular group? Do only black criminals have it apply to them? Is the weight different for white people arrested for possession?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533263
What?

The cease fire is slipping according to reports...may not last long... Saddam knew that the "secret war" would start ...He has said he wanted his troops to stand up and fight conventional for only about 2 weeks... The reports I've seen...Pentagon and Commission report say they are not working together... I mean what does "contact" mean in your perspective?... Either they are working together or they are not...
The Iraq Gov't is not fueling it... its us ... Anyone who wants to work with us is a target... The common denominator is the USA...
What cease fire and what reports????
You said Al Qaeda was not in Iraq. The reports you quote, however, say that there was "no operational link" between Al Qaeda and Saddam. The reports do NOT say Al Qaeda was not in Iraq.
If the Iraqi Government is not the target why are they blowing up so many Iraqi civilians who have no ties to us?

 

[zman1]

JourneyI have seen so many post about taxes, I wonder what your impression is on taxes paid by citizen income groups. This does include the medicare flat-tax that carries on all tax brackets and the SS regression tax. Salaried Income - Federal Tax Bracket - Effective Tax w SS Tax - 2007$0 and $7,550 10.00% 17.65% - 7.65 %- effect on total tax
$7,550 and $30,650 15.00% 22.65% 7.65 %" "
$30,650 and $74,200 25.00% 32.65% 7.65 % " "
$74,200 and $94,200 28.00% 35.65% 7.65 % ""
$94,200 and $154,800 28.00% 29.45% 1.45% ""
$154,800 and $336,550 33.00% 34.45% 1.45% ""
above $336,550 35.00% 36.45% 1.45% ""
What's your thoughts - who carries a larger burden of income for taxes collected. The last two brackets are included (last part of the 150k-336k) the top 1% the other 99 % make of the other groups that pay taxes. Of course the more you make the more you pay - I am not sure if I am wording this right though..... When I cap SS my paycheck always go up - more take home...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1http:///forum/post/2533419
Journey
I have seen so many post about taxes, I wonder what your impression is on taxes paid by citizen income groups. This does include the medicare flat-tax that carries on all tax brackets and the SS regression tax.
Salaried Income - Federal Tax Bracket - Effective Tax w SS Tax - 2007
$0 and $7,550 10.00% 17.65% - 7.65 %- effect on total tax
$7,550 and $30,650 15.00% 22.65% 7.65 %" "
$30,650 and $74,200 25.00% 32.65% 7.65 % " "
$74,200 and $94,200 28.00% 35.65% 7.65 % ""
$94,200 and $154,800 28.00% 29.45% 1.45% ""
$154,800 and $336,550 33.00% 34.45% 1.45% ""
above $336,550 35.00% 36.45% 1.45% ""
What's your thoughts - who carries a larger burden of income for taxes collected. The last two brackets are in the top 1% the other 99 % make of the other groups that pay taxes.
Your numbers don't make any sense, but concept wise as a percentage of income, they get taxed. Basically a 35% tax bracket is going to pay 35% of their taxable income in taxes. Ad 10% tax bracket is going to pay 10% of their income in taxes. Maybe you should post a link to your source so we can further read what they are trying to communicate with these numbers.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2533447
Your numbers don't make any sense, but concept wise as a percentage of income, they get taxed. Basically a 35% tax bracket is going to pay 35% of their taxable income in taxes. Ad 10% tax bracket is going to pay 10% of their income in taxes. Maybe you should post a link to your source so we can further read what they are trying to communicate with these numbers.

When I cap SS, my paycheck always goes up - more take home - SS stops being withheld, EOY taxes reflect this too. There is a little diffference with SS on gross pay and AGI but they still mix in the brackets.
These numbers were for 2007 tax year -

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2533460
When I cap SS, my paycheck always goes up - more take home - SS stops being withheld, EOY taxes reflect this too. There is a little diffference with SS on pay and AGI but they still mix in the brackets.
These numbers were for 2007 tax year -
I'd still really like to see the source of your numbers it isnt that I'm doubting them or what, they simply aren't labeled clearly, and I'd like to read them and see the math behind them before I can pass whatever judgement there is to be held on them.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2533638
I'd still really like to see the source of your numbers it isnt that I'm doubting them or what, they simply aren't labeled clearly, and I'd like to read them and see the math behind them before I can pass whatever judgement there is to be held on them.

I suspect it also omitts the earned income credit which places lower income people in the position of recieving money from the treasury rather than paying taxes.

 

[gonefishcrazy]

Wow, when I read everybody's post I can see what your trying to hold back and not wanting to say.Nobody is perfect, it does not matter who becomes president. All of you who have read or seen the sermon in question and feels so disgusted with it, I don't blame you because its what you believe. Huckabee was asked about the sermon and he said he could understand some of the points the pastor made. He said he does'nt 100% believe what he says about the 911 comment. He also said if he was brought up where he had to sit in the back of a bus, go to different schools, use different bathrooms,,and list go on he would probably have a little chip on his shoulder. What part of Ga or Alabama that a school just decided to have one prom. Before last year the school had two proms one white and one black.
My mom say and do alot of things I dont agree with but thats my mom and I love her anyway. Im sure you know somebody who have different views but there's other things you love about them. If I was a daughter of a KKK member but I donot agree with what they believe, should everybody expect me not to talk to my parents or else they hate me . One should not be judge because of other people views. I wish everybody was like me and love everybody no matter what color their skin.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by gonefishcrazy
http:///forum/post/2533711
Wow, when I read everybody's post I can see what your trying to hold back and not wanting to say.Nobody is perfect, it does not matter who becomes president. All of you who have read or seen the sermon in question and feels so disgusted with it, I don't blame you because its what you believe. Huckabee was asked about the sermon and he said he could understand some of the points the pastor made. He said he does'nt 100% believe what he says about the 911 comment. He also said if he was brought up where he had to sit in the back of a bus, go to different schools, use different bathrooms,,and list go on he would probably have a little chip on his shoulder. What part of Ga or Alabama that a school just decided to have one prom. Before last year the school had two proms one white and one black.
My mom say and do alot of things I dont agree with but thats my mom and I love her anyway. Im sure you know somebody who have different views but there's other things you love about them. If I was a daughter of a KKK member but I donot agree with what they believe, should everybody expect me not to talk to my parents or else they hate me . One should not be judge because of other people views. I wish everybody was like me and love everybody no matter what color their skin.
You don't get to pick your family. Big difference. The things you choose to affiliate yourself with speak loudly about who you are.

 

[gonefishcrazy]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2533740
You don't get to pick your family. Big difference. The things you choose to affiliate yourself with speak loudly about who you are.
Please, I have plenty of close friends who think very differently acts different but if you believe in God then you know you should still love that person. So everybody you know think the same way you do? I have friends of different race who has friends of that same race that does'nt care for my race. Do you think I should stop talking to my friend? I don't think hillary is racist even though she had that racist woman on her campaign. Trust me she have not stop talking to her. We can't be blamed for other people. If America operated that way it would be much more a disaster. How old are we 6?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by gonefishcrazy
http:///forum/post/2533763
Please, I have plenty of close friends who think very differently acts different but if you believe in God then you know you should still love that person. So everybody you know think the same way you do? I have friends of different race who has friends of that same race that does'nt care for my race. Do you think I should stop talking to my friend? I don't think hillary is racist even though she had that racist woman on her campaign. Trust me she have not stop talking to her. We can't be blamed for other people. If America operated that way it would be much more a disaster. How old are we 6?
It boils down to he chose to put a this person in a place of authority in his life. As a "christian" this, outside your own family, going to be one of the most important and influencial person in your life.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2533263
What?

The cease fire is slipping according to reports...may not last long... Saddam knew that the "secret war" would start ...He has said he wanted his troops to stand up and fight conventional for only about 2 weeks... The reports I've seen...Pentagon and Commission report say they are not working together... I mean what does "contact" mean in your perspective?... Either they are working together or they are not...
The Iraq Gov't is not fueling it... its us ... Anyone who wants to work with us is a target... The common denominator is the USA...
After re-listening to the "reverend" I don't think it was taken out of context. Especially his the USA is a bunch of terrorists "faith footnote."
Here is the video, (other than the offensive concept of the American Terrorist this doesn't have any vulgar language.)
http://baldeagle08.wordpress.com/200...on-in-context/