Obama supporters. I have one question

[stdreb27]

journey here is a transcript from anderson cooper's website. I fail to see how it was taken out of context. Rylan as you can see he isn't saying that god might or has he is if anything asking god to D--- America. Especially when you take into consideration the "context" of the song.
“And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent, she failed. She put them on reservations.”
“When it came to putting her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in interment prison camps.”
“When it came to putting the citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters. Put them on

[hr]
blocks. Put them in cotton fields. Put them in inferior schools. Put them in substandard housing. Put them scientific experiments. Put them in the lower paying jobs. Put them outside the equal protection of the law. Kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education, and locked them into positions of hopelessness and helplessness.”
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. Naw, naw, naw. Not God Bless America. God D--- America! That’s in the Bible. For killing innocent people. God D--- America for treating us citizens as less than human. God D--- America as long as she tries to act like she is God and she is Supreme.”
“The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent. Think about this. Think about this. For every one Oprah, a billionaire, you’ve got 5 million blacks that are out of work. For every one Colin Powell, a millionaire, you’ve got 10 million blacks who cannot read. For every one Condi-Skeezer Rice, you’ve got 1 million in prison. For every one Tiger Woods, who needs to get beat at the Masters, with his Cablanasian hips, playing on a course that discriminates against women, God has this way of brining you up short when you get to big for your Cablanasian britches. For every one Tiger Woods, we’ve got 10,000 black kids who will never see a golf course. The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent.”
“Tell your neighbor he’s (going to) help us one last time. Turn back and say forgive him for the God Damn, that’s in the Bible though. Blessings and curses is in the Bible. It’s in the Bible.
“Where government fail, God never fails. When God says it, it’s done. God never fails. When God wills it, you better get out the way, cause God never fails. When God fixes it, oh believe me it’s fixed. God never fails. Somebody right now, you think you can’t make it, but I want you to know that you are more than a conqueror through Christ. You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.”
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/2...%80%9D-sermon/

 

[stdreb27]

now lets take a short look at what Wright referenced when he spoke of Irving Berlin's song. It was written around WWI and is a prayer.
God Bless America.
Land that I love
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies ,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America
My home sweet home.
God Bless America,
Land that I love
Stand beside her,
And guide her,
Through the night
With the light from above,
From the mountains,
To the prairies,
To the ocean,
White with foam,
God bless America,
My home sweet home.
God bless America,
My home sweet home.
It is a truely power prayer, asking god to bless america. So if anything it seems to me that the "reverend" is praying too.
you know it is funny if the pastor really wanted to change these percieved "injustices" maybe he needs to start singing this song. Instead of the tune he has been preaching for the last 30 odd years.

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2533638
I'd still really like to see the source of your numbers it isnt that I'm doubting them or what, they simply aren't labeled clearly, and I'd like to read them and see the math behind them before I can pass whatever judgement there is to be held on them.
That was actually 2006 tax rates - It's not that hard to figure out. The point I was trying to make is when you look at the marginal tax rate, it would appears the wealthy would pay 10% more in the higher tax bracket than compared to the rest. Everyone pays for Medicare TAX 1.45% regardless of income level now, that was not the case years ago, it had a cap like Social security does today. If you are an employee, you pay 6.5 % amount of earnings subject to Fica. The wage base for the Social Security portion will rise to $102,000 for 2008, up $4,500 from last year, after that income level is reached, you stop paying tax on it.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html
Let's keep it simple 2007 taxes
For single taxpayers
If your taxable income is at least . . .
But not more than . . .
Your tax is:
$0 -
$7,825
10% of the amount over $0
$7,826
$31,850
$782.50 plus 15% of the amount over $7,825
$31,851
$77,100
$4,386.25 plus 25% of the amount over $31,850
$77,101
$160,850
$15,698.75 plus 28% of the amount over $77,100
$160,851
$349,700
$39,148.75 plus 33% of the amount over $160,850
$349,701
No limit
$101,469.25 plus 35% of the amount over $349,700
(First 97500 full SS (fica) tax)
AGI at 77,100 (Lets say FICA tax was on 85,000) This bracket most likely didn't gross enough to reach the SS max. Medicare will be on AGI here
$4,386.25
+ (45250 *.25) = $11,312.5
total fed tax =$15,698.75
+SS tax (85000 *.065) = $5525
+Medicare = (.0145* 77100) =$1,117.95
Total taxes collected by the FED GOV = $22,341.7
Effective tax rates of total money uncle sam took from this income group based on AGI
Total Fed tax and FICA tax based of percent of AGI income -- 28.977 %

[hr]
AGI at $160,850 (First 97500 full SS tax)
$15,698.75
+ (83750 * .28) =$ 23450
total Fed tax = $39,148.75
+ SS tax ($97,500 * .065) $6337.5
+Medicare = (.0145* 160850) =$2,332.33
Total taxes collected by the FED GOV = $47,818.58
Effective tax rates of total money uncle sam took from this income group based on AGI
Total Fed tax and FICA tax based of percent of AGI income -- 29.728 %

[hr]
AGI at $349,700 (First 97500 full SS tax)
/>$39,148.75
+ (188850 * .33) = $62320.5
total fed tax =$101,469.25
+ SS tax ($97,500 * .065) $6337.5
+Medicare = (.0145* 349700) =$5,070.65
Total taxes collected by the FED GOV = $112,877.40
Effective tax rates of total money uncle sam took from this income group based on AGI
Total Fed tax and FICA tax based of percent of AGI income -- 32.278 %

[hr]
AGI at 1,000,000 (First 97500 full SS tax)
$101,469.25
+ (650,300 * .35) = $227,60545
total fed tax =$329074.25
+ SS tax ($97,500 * .065) $6337.5
+Medicare = (.0145* 1000000) =$14,500
Total taxes collected by the FED GOV = $349,911.75
Effective tax rates of total money uncle sam took from this income group based on AGI
Total Fed tax and FICA tax based of percent of AGI income -- 34.99 %
Four of the tax scales, then the actual effective rate of money sent to Uncle Sam of AGI depending on the bracket you are in.
Scale 25% = actual 28.98 % - pays 3.98% more than bracket to uncle sam
Scale 28% = actual 29.73 % - pays 1.73% more than bracket to uncle sam
Scale 33% = actual 32.28 % -pays .72 less than bracket to uncle sam
Scale 35%= actual 35% -
Really there is a 6 % difference between these 4 scales not 10 % in real dollars sent to the gov. - Most important the first two are paying a lot more than the scales would indicate in total taxes collected. It would be a huge difference if FICA was not capped at first $97,500 of income and was like medicare. The 28% does have a break in it because of this, I didn't run the section, the upper end would pay less compared to the lower end.
I am for reducing the highest two tax brackets to 28% and put no cap on FICA
The old 28% backet would pay 51,936 instead of 47,818 - net pay more 4K
The old 33% bracket would pay 119,827 instead of 112,877 - net pay more 7k
The old 35% bracket would pay 353,610 instead of 349,911 - net pay more 4k
Now everyone would be in the 28 % bracket above AGI $77,101.... but would bring in a huge surplus to the SS fund.
Note - as you can tell I didn't include the lowest two brackets in the examples

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2534048
Now everyone would be in the 28 % bracket above AGI $77,101.... but would bring in a huge surplus to the SS fund.
I'll go into the numbers in the morning because it is bed time.
But the question still remains why dump money into a fund that doesn't even go to what it says it goes to and is failing in its original intention?

 

[zman1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2534075
But the question still remains why dump money into a fund that doesn't even go to what it says it goes to and is failing in its original intention?
We need to change it - Make it against the law to raid it, as it has been pilfered already.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2534077
We need to change it - Make it against the law to raid it, as it has been pilfered already.
Because that stopped them the first time. Laws don't stop these people heck they make them up! How many times do we have to touch the hot stove before we figure out that we probably shouldn't be touching the hot stove?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by gonefishcrazy
http:///forum/post/2533763
Please, I have plenty of close friends who think very differently acts different but if you believe in God then you know you should still love that person. So everybody you know think the same way you do? I have friends of different race who has friends of that same race that does'nt care for my race. Do you think I should stop talking to my friend? I don't think hillary is racist even though she had that racist woman on her campaign. Trust me she have not stop talking to her. We can't be blamed for other people. If America operated that way it would be much more a disaster. How old are we 6?
I agree, people have many layers... And because of personal relationships we sometimes take the good with the bad... I don't think people have to agree on everything...People generally have different life experiences which sometimes shape their views on particular subject; however, one disagreement on issues..shouldn't always cancel out all the things you may share in common... I guess it just depends on what flaws you are able to accept.

 

[reefraff]

I have no problem removing the cap on FICA taxes but it wont solve a thing. It hardly registers a blip on the radar screen as far as the big picture but every little bit helps.
People are clueless to how severe and urgent a problem the SS and medicare fiascos are.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2534336
I agree, people have many layers... And because of personal relationships we sometimes take the good with the bad... I don't think people have to agree on everything...People generally have different life experiences which sometimes shape their views on particular subject; however, one disagreement on issues..shouldn't always cancel out all the things you may share in common... I guess it just depends on what flaws you are able to accept.
lol, the "reverend" according to obama "lead him to christ" has been his pastor for 20 years, married the couple and baptised their kids. Yeah, I mean this guy isn't close at all. No influence whatsoever.
And then liberals wonder why they don't get the christian vote.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2532908
I disagree, what he has said is no different than many other pastors... Regardless if you agree with him or not.... I don't believe his sermon deserves the criticism it has been recieving as hateful and racist. As I stated he did not curse America... but said that if America continues down the road of sin and taking "God" out of America... than instead of God bless America it will be God d--- America... and we will continue to be out of favor with God and more bad things will happen... not because He is causing these things to happen, but because God will not intercede on our behalf.
In 35 years of sermons I remember, I've never heard anything close to the hate Rev Wright preaches. Something tells me Christ never preached like that.
Then again, I'm a "typical white man".
Maybe Obama should go to a "typical" church.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by gonefishcrazy
http:///forum/post/2533763
Please, I have plenty of close friends who think very differently acts different but if you believe in God then you know you should still love that person. So everybody you know think the same way you do? I have friends of different race who has friends of that same race that does'nt care for my race. Do you think I should stop talking to my friend? I don't think hillary is racist even though she had that racist woman on her campaign. Trust me she have not stop talking to her. We can't be blamed for other people. If America operated that way it would be much more a disaster. How old are we 6?
You might want to look into Geraldine Farraro's past before saying she is racist.
Other than that I wouldn't hang out with someone talking the crap Wright does. Maybe I have higher standards than most

It's one thing to have to listen to that crap from a family member (I have) but I don't want to hear it from people I hang around with.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2533279
How in the world does the clinton era 3 strikes laws(you remember that party that reaches out to blacks) disproportionately affect blacks? Unless more of them were comitting crimes?
There are a few things to look at.... 80% of inmates are drug offenders with as many as 80% of those inmates being african american... Reports show that the majority of drug users (66%) however are caucasian... So thats the 1st area to look at with the Drug Laws that are on the books... The debate of Cocaine vs Crack... We all know what groups are more likely to use which because of the cost disparity of these drugs... I'll have to check the #'s, but if a person sells 5 grams of crack (the equivialant of 5 sugar packets) gets a mandatory 5 years... The same penalty for power cocaine is at least 500 grams..... Lets go further...
73% of those sentenced had only low involvment..Which leads to socioeconomic policy and criminal justice policy. For young black men in the most disadvantaged schools, high dropout rates become a pathway to prison, with more than half of black male dropouts having been incarcerated by their mid-30s.
These outcomes contribute to a vicious cycle whereby incarceration reduces future job prospects and earnings power. In addition, there is an increasing spillover effect on families and communities... So incorporating 20+ of declining social and economic prospects for African-American males in particular, the result of the drug war and the harsh sentencing policies such as mandatory minimums and "three strikes" laws, imprisonment has increasingly become almost the norm in many low-income communities. If current trends continue, 1 in 3 black males born today will spend time in a state or federal prison in his lifetime....
So has the mandatory sentencing laws controlled the supply of drugs?...No
Is the drug trafficing trade one of the most destructive forces in the black community... Yes
Do these laws unporportionately affect minority groups such as hispanics and blacks over the others.... YES.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2534363
In 35 years of sermons I remember, I've never heard anything close to the hate Rev Wright preaches. Something tells me Christ never preached like that.
Then again, I'm a "typical white man".
Maybe Obama should go to a "typical" church.
I heard one idea behind this which was Obama needed this church to gain standing in the "Black Community". Seems to me there could be something to that. Wasn't he raised about as far away from the "black community" as one can get?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2534363
In 35 years of sermons I remember, I've never heard anything close to the hate Rev Wright preaches. Something tells me Christ never preached like that.
Then again, I'm a "typical white man".
Maybe Obama should go to a "typical" church.
Well, thats your experience... Have you ever been to a black chuch?... Do you even go to church?... Have you heard other 'controversial' ministers such as Hagee and Pat Roberson?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2534371
There are a few things to look at.... 80% of inmates are drug offenders with as many as 80% of those inmates being african american... Reports show that the majority of drug users (66%) however are caucasian... So thats the 1st area to look at with the Drug Laws that are on the books... The debate of Cocaine vs Crack... We all know what groups are more likely to use which because of the cost disparity of these drugs... I'll have to check the #'s, but if a person sells 5 grams of crack (the equivialant of 5 sugar packets) gets a mandatory 5 years... The same penalty for power cocaine is at least 500 grams..... Lets go further...
73% of those sentenced had only low involvment..Which leads to socioeconomic policy and criminal justice policy. For young black men in the most disadvantaged schools, high dropout rates become a pathway to prison, with more than half of black male dropouts having been incarcerated by their mid-30s.
These outcomes contribute to a vicious cycle whereby incarceration reduces future job prospects and earnings power. In addition, there is an increasing spillover effect on families and communities... So incorporating 20+ of declining social and economic prospects for African-American males in particular, the result of the drug war and the harsh sentencing policies such as mandatory minimums and "three strikes" laws, imprisonment has increasingly become almost the norm in many low-income communities. If current trends continue, 1 in 3 black males born today will spend time in a state or federal prison in his lifetime....
So has the mandatory sentencing laws controlled the supply of drugs?...No
Is the drug trafficing trade one of the most destructive forces in the black community... Yes
Do these laws unporportionately affect minority groups such as hispanics and blacks over the others.... YES.
Cool. So lets use this as the basis to increase the penalties for powder cocaine offenses. None of these scumbags belong on the street

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2534373
I heard one idea behind this which was Obama needed this church to gain standing in the "Black Community". Seems to me there could be something to that. Wasn't he raised about as far away from the "black community" as one can get?
What does that matter? Is he not entitled to be in the black community? He is a black american.. There is nothing to that... He is in Chicago, which has a very large black population... I am sure that there are at least 1000 black churches in and around the city... Regardless of how you are raised... as an adult you can make whatever life choices you want... For example... lets say your parents are racist (hypothetical) and you were raised around a bunch of racists people... Is that your lot in life?... or do have the ability to make you own decisions about life...Or if you were raised aethist...or christian...or by gay parents... whatever... Parents have influence... but don't determine who are what you are or will become...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2534378
Cool. So lets use this as the basis to increase the penalties for powder cocaine offenses. None of these scumbags belong on the street

I think more fair penalties should be what we are going for... The prison population is out of control... We need IMO more/better programs for drug offenders... we need provide ways to give them opportunity to succeed... The money would be better spent in diversion programs, education/vocational programs, and etc... I don't believe they are all scumbags... as you call them.. as I mentioned 73% have very low level involment and just get caught up because their prospects are low, and its a easy way to make a lot of money.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2534371
There are a few things to look at.... 80% of inmates are drug offenders with as many as 80% of those inmates being african american... Reports show that the majority of drug users (66%) however are caucasian... So thats the 1st area to look at with the Drug Laws that are on the books... The debate of Cocaine vs Crack... We all know what groups are more likely to use which because of the cost disparity of these drugs... I'll have to check the #'s, but if a person sells 5 grams of crack (the equivialant of 5 sugar packets) gets a mandatory 5 years... The same penalty for power cocaine is at least 500 grams..... Lets go further...
73% of those sentenced had only low involvment..Which leads to socioeconomic policy and criminal justice policy. For young black men in the most disadvantaged schools, high dropout rates become a pathway to prison, with more than half of black male dropouts having been incarcerated by their mid-30s.
These outcomes contribute to a vicious cycle whereby incarceration reduces future job prospects and earnings power. In addition, there is an increasing spillover effect on families and communities... So incorporating 20+ of declining social and economic prospects for African-American males in particular, the result of the drug war and the harsh sentencing policies such as mandatory minimums and "three strikes" laws, imprisonment has increasingly become almost the norm in many low-income communities. If current trends continue, 1 in 3 black males born today will spend time in a state or federal prison in his lifetime....
So has the mandatory sentencing laws controlled the supply of drugs?...No
Is the drug trafficing trade one of the most destructive forces in the black community... Yes
Do these laws unporportionately affect minority groups such as hispanics and blacks over the others.... YES.
lol, rock and crack is an issue I think, but I fail to see if the laws are applied equally to all (and don't tell me that every jury is a bunch of racists) that it was designed to hurt black people, unless you want to argue that because your black you're a druggy. I can see it now, white democrat and republican politicians, "I don't like black people lets put em in prizon, I know lets have a 3 strike rule! yeah." *beep* "secratary can you make sure my white sheets are picked up at the dry cleaners."

Come on that is basically what he is arguing. (wright)

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2534375
Well, thats your experience... Have you ever been to a black chuch?... Do you even go to church?... Have you heard other 'controversial' ministers such as Hagee and Pat Roberson?
once again, how is Pat Roberson contraversial?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2534403
lol, rock and crack is an issue I think, but I fail to see if the laws are applied equally to all (and don't tell me that every jury is a bunch of racists) that it was designed to hurt black people, unless you want to argue that because your black you're a druggy. I can see it now, white democrat and republican politicians, "I don't like black people lets put em in prizon, I know lets have a 3 strike rule! yeah." *beep* "secratary can you make sure my white sheets are picked up at the dry cleaners."

Come on that is basically what he is arguing. (wright)
I disagree... we can look at all the statistics... for crimes that are equal... blacks recieve longer sentences... So are you asking me what is their agenda?.... I don't know.. Am I calling legislatures racist... no ... but facts are facts... you can interupt them however you want. So I'll say that there is frustration in the black community... Is everything that Wright said accurate... probably not...
Should Obama's presidency be linked to this guy... no... he is not running... Should people understand the remarks... yes
Do they have to agree with them... no