Tea Party Movement

[darthtang aw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/300#post_3314377
Sorry Darth. Unlike you, I actually have to work some time to make a living.

What hypocrisy?
Yeah, I don't work...you got me...have had nothing but time since saturday to make posts in this forum. Oh wait, that was you.
I asked a question you never answered regarding religion. I also pointed out all laws are rooted in beliefs....had nothing to say in response?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314383
Oh, I get my free time during the week. Just so happens we had some puke in the Netherlands do an attack on one of our firewalls, and it took longer than expected to track the creaton down.
What question regarding religion? I guess I missed that one. I think I've made it perfectly clear where I stand regarding religion and politics - "Never the twain shall meet." I don't care what religious overtones are embedded in our laws. Someone's personal religious beliefs should never be interjected to the point that they conflict with the opinions and mindsets of a person that doesn't believe in those ideologies. You want to claim, "God told me so" or "God would want ME to do so and so", I have no problem with it, as long as it applies only to you. Religion is known to be the root of distrust and harmony between individuals with opposing philosophies. Why do you think there are so many violent wars and conflicts occurring in the Mid East? RELIGION. Why do you think there's mini-wars going on in Northern Ireland? RELIGION. Those Protestants and Catholics can't seem to get along. At least in the US, no one is starting civil wars because a Baptist disagrees with the religious philosophies of a Lutheran or Methodist. YET....

 

[reefraff]

It took 40 years for the people to wake up to what a disaster Democrat control of the house was in 94. This time it only took 4. Voters are getting smarter

How exactly do you know what Obama bases his decisions on? Just because he doesn't say it's based on his religion doesn't mean he doesn't. Just about every president we've ever had was religious but you left wing hypocrites only point out the Conservatives. Got news for you, Bill Clinton attended Church more while in office than Bush ever did.
Did you catch Nancy Pelosi's little talk about her favorite word, "The Word"? Harry Reid is Mormon, I would think that would really worry you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/300#post_3314377
Sorry Darth. Unlike you, I actually have to work some time to make a living.

What hypocrisy? Disease Boy claims Obama bases his decisions on healthcare because he wants to "help the weak", and this phrase originates from some Bible passage. If I think I can benefit from the new health plan, and it's cheaper for me to go that route as opposed to sticking with the insurance I have now, I'll use the new plan. So you're saying I'd be one of these poor, weak individuals in this country that needs low-cost health insurance?

That is rich.
The only reason Obama is where he is today is because the majority of Americans were sick and tired of the Republican ideologies, and the direction they were sending this country. Plain and simple. If there wasn't this vile hated for Dubya and his 'good 'ole boy arrogant attitude', Obama probably wouldn't be POTUS today. Now that a Democrat is running the Big Show, the Republicans and Conservatives have done everything possible to trash the guy, using any means possible, preferably media outets and mogels like Limbaugh and Rush. If you honestly think Limbaugh doesn't influence the thinking of the current Conservative Right that sits in Congress, you are a bumbling idiot and fool. If the guy ran for a Congressional seat, he'd probably have a good chance at winning. There's enough of his followers and 'free thinkers' like him who would be stupid enough to vote him in. The only reason Limbaugh doesn't run is because he'd have to take a massive paycut, and would essentially be an insignificant fly on the wall due to his political inexperience.
Based on the various polls and such you read these days, I imagine the Republicans will end up getting the majority in either the Senate or House come November. This will appease the Republican Obama Haters Club to some degree. If they manage to oust Obama in 2012, we'll be back to the same state we were in when Bush was running the show. Then it'll be the Democrats and Independents turn to start their trash campaign on whoever the Republicans or Tea party manage to get into that seat. It's the same old cycle all over again.

 

[darthtang aw]

I asked if you were ok with text books supporting one religion over another, in response to your texas school book story (which incidentally is not a law).
Hackers suck.
Also, lets look at global warming...there is much supportting and against it in the vein of scientific evidence. Yet we have a group of politicians legislating laws which affect me in regards to this. How is this any different. Beliefs are beliefs, whether they be religion or science....science has been proven wrong in the past on many occasion. yet both dictate how one makes and views laws...They are both the same. How can you support laws made in response to one and not the other?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314403
Oh, I get my free time during the week. Just so happens we had some puke in the Netherlands do an attack on one of our firewalls, and it took longer than expected to track the creaton down.
What question regarding religion? I guess I missed that one. I think I've made it perfectly clear where I stand regarding religion and politics - "Never the twain shall meet." I don't care what religious overtones are embedded in our laws. Someone's personal religious beliefs should never be interjected to the point that they conflict with the opinions and mindsets of a person that doesn't believe in those ideologies. You want to claim, "God told me so" or "God would want ME to do so and so", I have no problem with it, as long as it applies only to you. Religion is known to be the root of distrust and harmony between individuals with opposing philosophies. Why do you think there are so many violent wars and conflicts occurring in the Mid East? RELIGION. Why do you think there's mini-wars going on in Northern Ireland? RELIGION. Those Protestants and Catholics can't seem to get along. At least in the US, no one is starting civil wars because a Baptist disagrees with the religious philosophies of a Lutheran or Methodist. YET....

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314406
It took 40 years for the people to wake up to what a disaster Democrat control of the house was in 94. This time it only took 4. Voters are getting smarter

How exactly do you know what Obama bases his decisions on? Just because he doesn't say it's based on his religion doesn't mean he doesn't. Just about every president we've ever had was religious but you left wing hypocrites only point out the Conservatives. Got news for you, Bill Clinton attended Church more while in office than Bush ever did.
Did you catch Nancy Pelosi's little talk about her favorite word, "The Word"? Harry Reid is Mormon, I would think that would really worry you.
I'll agree with you that Pelosi is a radical nut that needs to be kicked out the door. I've always said being Far Left is just as bad (if not worse if you listen to the bunch here) as being Far Right. Neither belongs in political power.

 

[darthtang aw]

define far left and far right.......because from what I see you support many of the far left views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314429
I'll agree with you that Pelosi is a radical nut that needs to be kicked out the door. I've always said being Far Left is just as bad (if not worse if you listen to the bunch here) as being Far Right. Neither belongs in political power.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314416
I asked if you were ok with text books supporting one religion over another, in response to your texas school book story (which incidentally is not a law).
Hackers suck.
Also, lets look at global warming...there is much supportting and against it in the vein of scientific evidence. Yet we have a group of politicians legislating laws which affect me in regards to this. How is this any different. Beliefs are beliefs, whether they be religion or science....science has been proven wrong in the past on many occasion. yet both dictate how one makes and views laws...They are both the same. How can you support laws made in response to one and not the other?
I don't think any religion should have more coverage over another in any kind of textbook. The problem with this controversy in Texas is the Conservative Right that has a majority on the board that dictates what books are used in all Texas classrooms, is basing their decision more on the fact that it's the Islamic faith that is being discussed. It wouldn't have been an issue for them if it were Catholic preachings being taught more than Baptist ideologies. Islamic = Muslim Beliefs = Osama Bin Laden = 9/11 = BAD in the minds of this Board. I know it's not a law, but it might as well be. As I said, this Board dictates what textbooks are purchased and used in every Public School in the State of Texas. In a sense, they LEGALLY tell a school what books they can use in their classroom. A school can't just go out and get books that are not recommended by this Board.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314430
define far left and far right.......because from what I see you support many of the far left views.
Isn't that already defined in the Dictionary of Saltwaterfish.com? You and I can disagree all day what would be considered "far left" and "far right". You think a lot of Obama's policies are "far left", but they are actually Centrist in nature. You think they are 'left' because they go against your 'far right' belief structure. You say Po-Tay-Toe, I say Po-Tah-Toe. Both refer to the same vegatable, but you'll still have an argument over the correct pronunciation of the word.

 

[reefraff]

It would be unconstitutional for any particular religious beliefs to be taught in a text book.
The current controversy is over historic actions of one religion being portrayed in one light while another gets favorable treatment, namely the crusades. They go into detail about what the christians did to the Muslims but never mention all the atrocities committed by the Muslims as well. Do you think that is fair?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314445
I don't think any religion should have more coverage over another in any kind of textbook. The problem with this controversy in Texas is the Conservative Right that has a majority on the board that dictates what books are used in all Texas classrooms, is basing their decision more on the fact that it's the Islamic faith that is being discussed. It wouldn't have been an issue for them if it were Catholic preachings being taught more than Baptist ideologies. Islamic = Muslim Beliefs = Osama Bin Laden = 9/11 = BAD in the minds of this Board. I know it's not a law, but it might as well be. As I said, this Board dictates what textbooks are purchased and used in every Public School in the State of Texas. In a sense, they LEGALLY tell a school what books they can use in their classroom. A school can't just go out and get books that are not recommended by this Board.

 

[reefraff]

Government takeover of Auto manufacturers and health care are pretty radical policies I think it's safe to say are far left. Cap and trade, pushing green technologies with tax money, Amnesty for illegals, Card check for unions etc. Obama makes Clinton look right wing.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314458
Government takeover of Auto manufacturers and health care are pretty radical policies I think it's safe to say are far left. Cap and trade, pushing green technologies with tax money, Amnesty for illegals, Card check for unions etc. Obama makes Clinton look right wing.
Man, you sound like a broken record. How many times do you have to be told that the government provided LOANS to the auto manufacturers. They gained stock in the respective companies as COLLATERAL to insure the LOANS were protected. There's no governemnt official sitting at every GM plant telling them what kind of cars to build, and how many they need to build in a day. If GM wanted to sell their entire company to Toyota tomorrow, the Feds wouldn't stop them.
I'd rather have green technologies pushed with tax money than have that money thrown into little things like "Bridges To Nowhere" and another 10,000 pork barrel legislative agendas politicians on BOTH SIDES of the fence spend my money on. What's your aversion or phobia about "going green"?
I've heard so many different stories about what or what isn't contained in this convoluted health care bill, I don't know who to believe. From the onset, Obama stated that, "If you already have health insurance you like, keep it. You have to do nothing else." Then then politicians got hold of it and fill it with 110 pages (or how many there are) of bloated pork and personal "conditions".
Amnesty for Illegals has been going on for years. It's just come into the spotlight more lately because of this Arizona resolution. You tell me, how many friends or aquaintenances do you have that would sit out in an open field for 12 hours a day in 100 degree heat picking cotton, peas, beets, or whatever, and getting paid $5.00/hr to do it?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314456
It would be unconstitutional for any particular religious beliefs to be taught in a text book.
The current controversy is over historic actions of one religion being portrayed in one light while another gets favorable treatment, namely the crusades. They go into detail about what the christians did to the Muslims but never mention all the atrocities committed by the Muslims as well. Do you think that is fair?
I say don't teach either. You survey 100 high school graduates that used that textbook in History class, ask them about this topic, and 95 of them would say, "I dunno what you're talking about." You also have to realize that just because something is in a textbook, doesn't necessarily mean that information is being taught in the classroom. Most teachers create their own lesson plans, and even though there is specific information that needs to be covered in each subject based on School District or State standards, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be distributed in detail. A teacher not comfortable with a topic like anti-Islamic teachings may just teach one or two 'bullet points' and move on.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314478
Man, you sound like a broken record. How many times do you have to be told that the government provided LOANS to the auto manufacturers. They gained stock in the respective companies as COLLATERAL to insure the LOANS were protected. There's no governemnt official sitting at every GM plant telling them what kind of cars to build, and how many they need to build in a day. If GM wanted to sell their entire company to Toyota tomorrow, the Feds wouldn't stop them.
I'd rather have green technologies pushed with tax money than have that money thrown into little things like "Bridges To Nowhere" and another 10,000 pork barrel legislative agendas politicians on BOTH SIDES of the fence spend my money on. What's your aversion or phobia about "going green"?
I've heard so many different stories about what or what isn't contained in this convoluted health care bill, I don't know who to believe. From the onset, Obama stated that, "If you already have health insurance you like, keep it. You have to do nothing else." Then then politicians got hold of it and fill it with 110 pages (or how many there are) of bloated pork and personal "conditions".
Amnesty for Illegals has been going on for years. It's just come into the spotlight more lately because of this Arizona resolution. You tell me, how many friends or aquaintenances do you have that would sit out in an open field for 12 hours a day in 100 degree heat picking cotton, peas, beets, or whatever, and getting paid $5.00/hr to do it?
Who appointed the head of GM again?
WHo was Chrysler given too?
Are you really so clueless that you don't think illegals are working construction, meat packing, roofing, landscaping and a thousand other jobs citizens also do?
I thought you Democrats were against corporate welfare, even if it's to push green business whether they make sense or not.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314481
I say don't teach either. You survey 100 high school graduates that used that textbook in History class, ask them about this topic, and 95 of them would say, "I dunno what you're talking about." You also have to realize that just because something is in a textbook, doesn't necessarily mean that information is being taught in the classroom. Most teachers create their own lesson plans, and even though there is specific information that needs to be covered in each subject based on School District or State standards, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be distributed in detail. A teacher not comfortable with a topic like anti-Islamic teachings may just teach one or two 'bullet points' and move on.
You could ask 100 high school graduates about any subject in any book and they couldn't answer most.
The thing is it is proper to teach such things as the crusades because of the historical context. But to sugar coat one side of the issue while being brutally honest about the other is wrong.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314490
Who appointed the head of GM again?
WHo was Chrysler given too?
Are you really so clueless that you don't think illegals are working construction, meat packing, roofing, landscaping and a thousand other jobs citizens also do?
I thought you Democrats were against corporate welfare, even if it's to push green business whether they make sense or not.
You ever invested in a company? Have you ever owned stock in a large corporation? If you as a major stockholder or investor was unhappy with the person who was running the business, and as a majority stockholder you had the power to change mangement to try and make the company more profitable, would you make the change? I sure would. Happens all the time in big business. The Feds were protecting YOUR money they LOANED to a major industry and employer in this country. That's what any smart investor would do.
Sure illegals do all the other blue collar jobs in this country. But they're willing to do them for less. As a small business owner, you have to find ways to make profit any way possible. I know a guy in town that owns a roofing company. Depending on the size of the job, and the time of the year, he can't find ANYONE willing to work that kind of hard labor for less than $12.00/hr. In the summertime here in San Antonio, we have multiple 100+ degree days. He's told me he had to delay multiple jobs because he couldn't find enough workers even willing to work in those conditions. So he heads downtown, hits the street corner where all the day laborers hang out, and fills the back of his truck. These guys do all the initial labor-intensive work of stripping down the roof to prep it for the new roof. He doesn't ask for legal status, and pays them a flat rate for the work they do. He does say most of them don't speak a lick of English, so you figure it out. He thens brings in his 'A Team' of roofers he's had on staff for years to do the actual shingle work, since he can't afford to have substandard work done. But these same day laborers are still there, busting their butts hauling plywood and shingles up to the roof for the nailers to put down. You know anyone willing to do this work?
Chrysler wasn't "given to" Fiat. Chrysler negotiated a sale of their assets to Fiat, but Chrysler still had over $4 billion in outstanding LOANS with the Feds. The Feds went back to Fiat and said they could take a 20% ownership of Chrysler initially, and then they would bump it up to 35% after Fiat paid off the remainder of the Federal loans. Eventually Fiat will get 51% ownership of Chrysler, and start bringing out their own line of vehicles. Again, the Feds protecting their investments.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314491
You could ask 100 high school graduates about any subject in any book and they couldn't answer most.
The thing is it is proper to teach such things as the crusades because of the historical context. But to sugar coat one side of the issue while being brutally honest about the other is wrong.
What's pointless about the issue, is most teachers that teach in the middle and high school levels, don't even use these books for reference anymore. My daughter had 4 books issued to her at the beginning of this school year, and every one of them sit in her room. She says the teachers use handouts and information off the internet to teach her classes. There's another high school in town that has completely done away with hardcopy textbooks. Everything is done online.

 

[fishtaco]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314533
You ever invested in a company? Have you ever owned stock in a large corporation? If you as a major stockholder or investor was unhappy with the person who was running the business, and as a majority stockholder you had the power to change mangement to try and make the company more profitable, would you make the change? I sure would. Happens all the time in big business. The Feds were protecting YOUR money they LOANED to a major industry and employer in this country. That's what any smart investor would do.
Sure illegals do all the other blue collar jobs in this country. But they're willing to do them for less. As a small business owner, you have to find ways to make profit any way possible. I know a guy in town that owns a roofing company. Depending on the size of the job, and the time of the year, he can't find ANYONE willing to work that kind of hard labor for less than $12.00/hr. In the summertime here in San Antonio, we have multiple 100+ degree days. He's told me he had to delay multiple jobs because he couldn't find enough workers even willing to work in those conditions. So he heads downtown, hits the street corner where all the day laborers hang out, and fills the back of his truck. These guys do all the initial labor-intensive work of stripping down the roof to prep it for the new roof. He doesn't ask for legal status, and pays them a flat rate for the work they do. He does say most of them don't speak a lick of English, so you figure it out. He thens brings in his 'A Team' of roofers he's had on staff for years to do the actual shingle work, since he can't afford to have substandard work done. But these same day laborers are still there, busting their butts hauling plywood and shingles up to the roof for the nailers to put down. You know anyone willing to do this work?
Chrysler wasn't "given to" Fiat. Chrysler negotiated a sale of their assets to Fiat, but Chrysler still had over $4 billion in outstanding LOANS with the Feds. The Feds went back to Fiat and said they could take a 20% ownership of Chrysler initially, and then they would bump it up to 35% after Fiat paid off the remainder of the Federal loans. Eventually Fiat will get 51% ownership of Chrysler, and start bringing out their own line of vehicles. Again, the Feds protecting their investments.
I'm just waiting for the Fiat 500 Abarth SS to be put on sale here and I am hoping to do my part to help to get Chrysler back afloat.

 

[fishtaco]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/300#post_3314309
Looks like bionic fled the scene and refused to answer anymore questions challenging his hypocrisy.
Fishtaco, i got a question for you.
name the last 2 Presidents you liked or respected...doesnt have to be in your lifetime.
List senators you support and respect.
List any other politicians or political personalities you respect as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314429
I'll agree with you that Pelosi is a radical nut that needs to be kicked out the door. I've always said being Far Left is just as bad (if not worse if you listen to the bunch here) as being Far Right. Neither belongs in political power.
Around here that position makes you a far-left bleeding heart liberal just like me. LOL
Fishtaco

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314533
You ever invested in a company? Have you ever owned stock in a large corporation? If you as a major stockholder or investor was unhappy with the person who was running the business, and as a majority stockholder you had the power to change mangement to try and make the company more profitable, would you make the change? I sure would. Happens all the time in big business. The Feds were protecting YOUR money they LOANED to a major industry and employer in this country. That's what any smart investor would do.
Sure illegals do all the other blue collar jobs in this country. But they're willing to do them for less. As a small business owner, you have to find ways to make profit any way possible. I know a guy in town that owns a roofing company. Depending on the size of the job, and the time of the year, he can't find ANYONE willing to work that kind of hard labor for less than $12.00/hr. In the summertime here in San Antonio, we have multiple 100+ degree days. He's told me he had to delay multiple jobs because he couldn't find enough workers even willing to work in those conditions. So he heads downtown, hits the street corner where all the day laborers hang out, and fills the back of his truck. These guys do all the initial labor-intensive work of stripping down the roof to prep it for the new roof. He doesn't ask for legal status, and pays them a flat rate for the work they do. He does say most of them don't speak a lick of English, so you figure it out. He thens brings in his 'A Team' of roofers he's had on staff for years to do the actual shingle work, since he can't afford to have substandard work done. But these same day laborers are still there, busting their butts hauling plywood and shingles up to the roof for the nailers to put down. You know anyone willing to do this work?
Chrysler wasn't "given to" Fiat. Chrysler negotiated a sale of their assets to Fiat, but Chrysler still had over $4 billion in outstanding LOANS with the Feds. The Feds went back to Fiat and said they could take a 20% ownership of Chrysler initially, and then they would bump it up to 35% after Fiat paid off the remainder of the Federal loans. Eventually Fiat will get 51% ownership of Chrysler, and start bringing out their own line of vehicles. Again, the Feds protecting their investments.
And if both car companies had been allowed to go bankrupt both would have been bought. Difference being both wouldn't owe the federal government billions right now and the unions would have taken a loss along with the stock and bond holders. What did the UAW union pay for their Majority stake in Chrysler?
Oh, I do invest in businesses and I would never be dumb enough to knowingly invest in one that was breaking the law, a good company can compete without cheating and the risk isn't worth it.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380296/tea-party-movement/320#post_3314534
What's pointless about the issue, is most teachers that teach in the middle and high school levels, don't even use these books for reference anymore. My daughter had 4 books issued to her at the beginning of this school year, and every one of them sit in her room. She says the teachers use handouts and information off the internet to teach her classes. There's another high school in town that has completely done away with hardcopy textbooks. Everything is done online.
Oh great. teachers using information from the internet to teach rather than the materials reviewed and approved by the school board and paid for with our taxes. Yet another reason to abolish public sector unions.