The Sobering Facts

[jmick]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
I just wrote a long letter here then deleted it , i didnt want to get banned.
the sad thing is every one of those woman that had an abortion suffer deeply from it for the rest of there lives, religouse groups do get involed, in fact they show the baby to the mothers threw ultrasound that want to have an abortion and 80 percent of the time they choose not to abort.
Other then that, did these groups do anything else to help the mother or the baby or was it just a tatic to shame them?

 

[jmick]

If these groups were able to put enough pressure to make abortions illegal what would they target next? Alcohol, gambling, adult movies, science in school, tobacco or anything else seen as unpure or threatening? This is a very slippery slope and where I do not agree with abortion I don't want to see it illegal. This is one of the last things I'd want to see a black market for.
Again, why not make an active effort to promote safe --- and better ----ed in schools?

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
But the potential to get it fertilized was there so wouldn't it be wrong to rob that life of its chance to even start?
No potential for a haploid gamete to become anything unless fertilized.
Everything has potential for something but dosent get defined until it actually is.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Jovial
No potential for a haploid gamete to become anything unless fertilized.
Everything has potential for something but dosent get defined until it actually is.
An aborted fetus has no potential to become anything else either.
Maybe I do not understand your point but it seems like you are drawing the line at fertilization which I guess is as good as any line.

 

[darknes]

For those that support abortion, at what point do you consider a fetus human? The instant it's born and starts crying? Is it wrong for a mother to kill a 1 day old child? Do you deny that a 7-month old fetus is human? Babies are born prematurely and still live.
I just want to know your reasoning at what point you draw the line between creature and human?

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
An aborted fetus has no potential to become anything else either.
Because it's dead. A 5 year old child that dies has no potential to become anything else either.

 

[darknes]

Heh, I didn't know we lost more lives in the Civil War than we did in WWII.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Darknes
For those that support abortion, at what point do you consider a fetus human? The instant it's born and starts crying? Is it wrong for a mother to kill a 1 day old child? Do you deny that a 7-month old fetus is human? Babies are born prematurely and still live.
I just want to know your reasoning at what point you draw the line between creature and human?
I don't think there is any good answer to that question. In the end a line must be drawn somewhere. Some people draw it at fertilization some draw it at birth. Those seem like the two most convenient lines but there are plenty more out there.
What I feel is most important is answering the question, if it should be illegal what should the punishment be?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Darknes
Because it's dead. A 5 year old child that dies has no potential to become anything else either.
And a haploid cell that dies is also dead. That is the point, where do you draw the line?

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jmick
If these groups were able to put enough pressure to make abortions illegal what would they target next? Alcohol, gambling, adult movies, science in school, tobacco or anything else seen as unpure or threatening? This is a very slippery slope and where I do not agree with abortion I don't want to see it illegal. This is one of the last things I'd want to see a black market for.
Again, why not make an active effort to promote safe --- and better ----ed in schools?
IMO abortion isnt the same as Alcohol, gambling or any other self destructive practice. Mainly because the baby being aborted dosent have a choice in the matter. People can choose to use the others. Something interesting...Marijuanna has been illeagal for years but has not caused alcohol to be outlawed since prohibition.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
And a haploid cell that dies is also dead. That is the point, where do you draw the line?

So when a haploid cell dies what does it become?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Jovial
So when a haploid cell dies what does it become?
Dead just like anything else that dies.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Dead just like anything else that dies.
Right, so if the haploid cell is fertilized then what does it become?

 

[slomo]

I thought this was a fish forum?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Right, so if the haploid cell is fertilized then what does it become?
After enough time, dead.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I don't think there is any good answer to that question. In the end a line must be drawn somewhere. Some people draw it at fertilization some draw it at birth. Those seem like the two most convenient lines but there are plenty more out there.
What I feel is most important is answering the question, if it should be illegal what should the punishment be?
I just don't see any good reasoning for someone trying to say it's human at birth. Clearly a fetus can live if taken from the mother's womb before it is born. Shouldn't that make it human then? I think people just try to make themselves feel better by saying its not human.
As for the punishment, that's hard to say. Going from a nation where it's legal to illegal, I would say the punishment would start off very lenient. In all reality, I don't think the government could ever put a harsh punishment on abortion. I guess we'll leave that up to the next life.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by slomo
I thought this was a fish forum?
Lol, fishies have babies too!

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by slomo
I thought this was a fish forum?

The Aquarium A forum to discuss off topic subjects.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Darknes
I just don't see any good reasoning for someone trying to say it's human at birth. Clearly a fetus can live if taken from the mother's womb before it is born. Shouldn't that make it human then? I think people just try to make themselves feel better by saying its not human.
As for the punishment, that's hard to say. Going from a nation where it's legal to illegal, I would say the punishment would start off very lenient. In all reality, I don't think the government could ever put a harsh punishment on abortion. I guess we'll leave that up to the next life.
Sure a fetus could live in many cases after a certain point if it was seperated from its mother, however our gametes could live if we combined them too.
*edit*
Oh, forgot to coment on the punishment. It makes sense to ease into a proper punishment, but what should it end up as? I mean murder is murder right? And if abortion is murder should eventually the punishment for abortion be death?

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
After enough time, dead.
OK then, so are you saying after enough time a fertilized haploid cell always dies?