unions

[veni vidi vici]

.
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2878196
I know this is not going to make me any friends in the union...BUT. AS a ex teamster and with my best friend being a very high ranking member of the teamster union........ Unions are NOT looking out for the "little' guy. They are nothing short of a bunch of old "mob guys" although most of them are gone and have been replaced with suites , taking what they want with the threat of force. Not the old "force" but new stuff.
nwdyr,all the guys Ive seen or know that are affiliated with organized crime dont wear suits with the exception of Gotti,however don't let the clothing throw you off.Ive seen or read about a lot of unorganized criminals that wear suits on a daily basis.I would be lying if i said i don't think there isn't deal making going on behind closed doors to benefit suits from both sides .However "Me" the little guy am making a decent living working hard for 40 hrs and getting paid accordingly with health insurance and a pension.Things that i know the our government is incapable of providing.
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2878196
When I was in the union we were taught how to scam management and how to do the least amount of work for the most money. I think most people in any union are over paid for the service they are rendering. Veni , I am not saying this applies to you! I don't know what you do please don't think I am talking about you. i am just talking about my experience with union's. "The attitude of "they cant fire me" has ruined the work force
My union taught me how to build ,to work smarter not harder,and to be safe.They even pushed the notion that i should be proud of what i do and to do my best at whatever the task at hand was.Then showed me how to do it.
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2878196
, our products in the US are inferior to other countries yet we pay the highest wages

Its not hard to figure out whats going on.
I disagree,We don't make the best everything ,but we do make the best of some things.I would say more things then less.And we hold our selves to a higher standard as a country.Would you let your kids play with Chinese toys?Would you rather have clothing made in Mexico or the USA?Who wins in a fight a Mig or a F-18?...........
Originally Posted by nwdyr
http:///forum/post/2878196
JMO and again I am sorry if I insulted and union workers , Not everyone is bad in the union its just as a whole they are designed to profit...HUGE profit management and they don't care about the impact on the country...HMM kinda like the business's they claim to be protecting you from huh???
I'm not insulted ,my opinion isn't the end all be all and yours isn't either.We will just agree to disagree.If my job isnt profitable ,why would i work? I guess we will part ways on what we consider "HUGE".

 

[darthtang aw]

Here are two examples of how the "clerks" union at the post office operates. First example. If some one calls in sick, management can not have someone else sort their mail that is not a clerk. For example they can't pull an extra carrier and have him sort. Otherwise what happens is a "clerk" can file a complaint, this gets processed and ALL the clerks in the union, will later get a check equally the number of hours at their pay rate that the "carrier" performed the job. Basically they get free money for doing nothing because someone else stepped up and did a job that was not getting done.
Second thing. My wife was being sexually harassed by another postal employee. Even to the point where he would follow her after work trying to get her to go on a 'date: with him. Now this was handled on the law side of it with the police. But when she filed the claim with the post office. Instead of firing him, the union stepped in and saved his job. He was transferred out of the station, but to do so they had to get him a promotion. Thanks to unions a piece of crap got not only to keep his job but got a promotion. The only consolation was we learned 4 years later he went into management and was let go, since management does not have a union in the post office...but seriously, are you kidding me?

 

[fish master]

sorry to hear that darth. thats not the norm. sexual harrasement even in unions is a big no no. the people that commit sexual harrasement are usualy fired. maybe that guy had friends in high places.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/2878198
Veni Vidi Vici, I completely agree with your last few posts.
Though the commodity is the white collar engineering group as well. We have outsource over the years a numbers of these jobs to overseas facilities (in what we would call third world countries) and brought in H-1B visa personnel from China and India, all the while laying off our American engineers. Also IT staffing has been outsourced with similar makeup. All in interest of shareholder value!!!!
Sadly, as I have said thousands of times... We value the investor over the American worker!!!!
The only jobs safe from outsourcing - Construction and the Service industries... If people lose their good paying American jobs to foreign cheap labor, it does put a burden on these, too.
The White Collar class isnt immune from unfair practices either i agree.Look at all the men and women who have given their whole lifes work only to have their position cut so the employer can save money on the retirement plan payout.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878185
I would disagree,in my field and in my state we have both union and non companies doing the same jobs,however when its a big job" subdivision of a few hundred homes ,sky scrapers,nuke,coal, steel facilities....." my union is able to provide large numbers of skilled ,qualified,safety oriented carpenters
That would be the party that does the work,if management doesn't like it they are free to form a pencil pusher union.... lol
First off I really don't know your union. I was under the impression we were discussing the automakers primarily. You can ALWAYS find an exception to any rule.
Second I'm responding to this.
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2877020
If we are talking Capitalism ,ill ask you this.Does Capitalism only apply to the rich and the business owners or all Americans?

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2877719
Let me rephrase the question.Do you believe its ok for a business to make as much profit as fairly possible,yet denied the work force to do the same?
My contention is that there is nothing free market about unions. Because they artificially (typically by labor laws) allow unions power to operate. You really think every thing else being equal a company is going to willingly pay more money for "union work."
Second, you completely blow my mind. The whole concept of a union is to unify people as a single group to gain more negotiating power secure better terms of employment. If a major companies would do this it would be called Collusion, cartel, monopoly, oligopoly. Depending on the number of players ect. That is the whole concept of a union.
There is nothing free market about circumventing the free market and setting artificial price floors on labor which is what unions do.
And no the individual is not a commodity, however the person's labor as a whole for the basis of this disgussion is a service that is traded for a cash instrument just like you trade the US dollar for gas at the gas station.

 

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
I'm no fruity tooty drink wielder.. I drink guiness extra stout.
My point exactly, how in the world are you in school and you can affording that? Suckling off the teat of mommy and daddy too?
I work and went to school I sure as hell was not affording high price drinks. Best we got was bush or naty ice, slumming it was milwaukee’s best.
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
I'm no fruity tooty drink wielder.. I drink guiness extra stout.
Seriously though you keep saying that you're not a beacon for holiness and then you cotradict it later on. Oh please with this white collar stereotype crap
Learn the difference from arrogance and self pride.
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
Since I don't have a personal story to tell ya since I'm still "suckin teats" in college, I'll use my dad as an example. He deals with goons in Nigeria, Asia, South America on a normal basis.
Your fathers exploits are lame at best.
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
How many times have you been under gun fire while shoveling snow.
None. Where am I plowing snow that I would be fired upon with a cannon or automatic weapons fire.
What’s daddy a weapons dealer?
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
while your wife nurses the mentally handicapped?
Oh lets applauded higher education cause you are the benchmark of higher education.
Special education is learning disabilities. Nursing the mentally challenged??? My wife’s not a nurse. Way to highlight your parents financial anchor you call collage.
Reading is fundamental. Read from left to right.
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
So next time I see some self righteous disgruntled union worker breaking ice or shoveling snow.. I'll move him aside and do it myself. I wouldn't want his stupidity or self righteousness to taint the streets I travel.
Oh to be young and dumb again. Live it up kid. Surround your self with mirrors cause you’ll never glow like this again.
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2876103
Any Union worker is just mad that they're on the bottom end of the spectrum and not the one calling the shots. That's just how it is.
Once again, you have a lot to learn about life.
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2877661
Oh and who's the one talking smack about drink choice and you drink that piss?

yeah... what a real man.. hahahahhahahaha
The opinion of me from a 22yo are nothing more then noise. I suggest you grow up and stick to the topic
When you do something with your life other then breath and talk tough with a keyboard then maybe I‘ll humor your thoughts and opinion. I suggest you grow up and work on your building some life experiences to talk about another the ramblings of your fathers exploits and how you were remotely involved.
You being involved with your fathers exploits with cannons and what ever nonsense you dreamed up had nothing to do with the topic other then trying to glorify your fathers existence and your own.
We got it, your fathers a tuff guy and your just as brave for being involved. Ok I’ll put the spot light on you.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878238
First off I really don't know your union. I was under the impression we were discussing the automakers primarily. You can ALWAYS find an exception to any rule.

I saw the title "Unions" Not UAW
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878238
My contention is that there is nothing free market about unions. Because they artificially (typically by labor laws) allow unions power to operate. You really think every thing else being equal a company is going to willingly pay more money for "union work."
Management vs. Worker, prevailing wage regulations win.So the answeris, no not willingly.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878238
Second, you completely blow my mind. The whole concept of a union is to unify people as a single group to gain more negotiating power secure better terms of employment. If a major companies would do this it would be called Collusion, cartel, monopoly, oligopoly. Depending on the number of players ect. That is the whole concept of a union.
Call it what you will,but it still doesn't make Unions wrong or illegal
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878238
There is nothing free market about circumventing the free market and setting artificial price floors on labor which is what unions do.
This is still America last time i checked,Employers and Employees are free to choose. Unions don't set artificial price floors prevailing wage regulations mandated by the government does.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878238
And no the individual is not a commodity, however the person's labor as a whole for the basis of this disgussion is a service that is traded for a cash instrument just like you trade the US dollar for gas at the gas station.
Sounds like Upper Management talk to me.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2878289
My point exactly, how in the world are you in school and you can affording that? Suckling off the teat of mommy and daddy too?

I wish Gusiness was an expensive beer. It's usually less then half almost anything from Germany and Belgium... Where my Chimay peeps at?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878292
This is still America last time i checked,Employers and Employees are free to choose. Unions don't set artificial price floors prevailing wage regulations mandated by the government does.
You are factually incorrect. In many of the right to work states, the employeer does not have the right to "walk away" from the union. Fire everyone and hire new people. If they did, strikes would never work.
But who am I to point out the obvious?

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878299
You are factually incorrect. In many of the right to work states, the employeer does not have the right to "walk away" from the union. Fire everyone and hire new people. If they did, strikes would never work.
But who am I to point out the obvious?
You are correct, providing he has signed a legal contract with the Union.Then that Employer is bound by the contents of the contract until it has expired.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878292
Call it what you will,but it still doesn't make Unions wrong or illegal
Illegal, no, free market capitalist concept, no. Thus in my book wrong.
I guess you have no problems with the concept of OPEC and the harm it has done to this country. You are against any anti-trust or anti-monopoly legislation.
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2877020
If we are talking Capitalism ,ill ask you this.Does Capitalism only apply to the rich and the business owners or all Americans?
You tell me, But I guess the answer is no free market rules only apply to business the workers are free collude to subvert the system that made us the richest and most powerful nation in the world.

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2878289
My point exactly, how in the world are you in school and you can affording that? Suckling off the teat of mommy and daddy too?
I work and went to school I sure as hell was not affording high price drinks. Best we got was bush or naty ice, slumming it was milwaukee’s best.
Learn the difference from arrogance and self pride.
Your fathers exploits are lame at best.
None. Where am I plowing snow that I would be fired upon with a cannon or automatic weapons fire.
What’s daddy a weapons dealer?
Oh lets applauded higher education cause you are the benchmark of higher education.
Special education is learning disabilities. Nursing the mentally challenged??? My wife’s not a nurse. Way to highlight your parents financial anchor you call collage.
Reading is fundamental. Read from left to right.
Oh to be young and dumb again. Live it up kid. Surround your self with mirrors cause you’ll never glow like this again.
Once again, you have a lot to learn about life.
The opinion of me from a 22yo are nothing more then noise. I suggest you grow up and stick to the topic
When you do something with your life other then breath and talk tough with a keyboard then maybe I‘ll humor your thoughts and opinion. I suggest you grow up and work on your building some life experiences to talk about another the ramblings of your fathers exploits and how you were remotely involved.
You being involved with your fathers exploits with cannons and what ever nonsense you dreamed up had nothing to do with the topic other then trying to glorify your fathers existence and your own.
We got it, your fathers a tuff guy and your just as brave for being involved. Ok I’ll put the spot light on you.

My dad's more of a man than you could dream of. He works in the oil service industry not gun running. It's spelled "college", oh but you wouldn't know something like that since your education was merely a "collage" of crap. Well I guess when I get to be a crony too and you're long gone and buried, I'll pay a visit to your headstone and piss on it with experienced old man urine.

Remember the spotlight, money turns into money.. its a good cycle. Hell even if I didn't work and spent the rest of your life arguing with you about how petty your selfrighteous pro-union antics are (you'd die before I do of course), I'd still have money. Like that? and.. your LIFE is lame at best.

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2878293

I wish Gusiness was an expensive beer. It's usually less then half almost anything from Germany and Belgium... Where my Chimay peeps at?

He's just adding to my point of him being a lowly disgruntled bottom feeder if he thinks guiness is premium. I was just emphasizing that it was leaps and bounds over coors and miller hahaha not that it was some sort of hard to obtain, expensive commodity.

 

[1journeyman]

Just a gentle, but firm reminder;
Personal attacks are frowned upon. If you are guilty of this in the past and have been warned it repeated behavior could well end in a permanent vacation away from the forums.
If you have not been warned before, you have now.

Play nice or play elsewhere.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878309
Illegal, no, free market capitalist concept, no. Thus in my book wrong.
LOL i own a different book then you i guess
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878309
I guess you have no problems with the concept of OPEC and the harm it has done to this country. You are against any anti-trust or anti-monopoly legislation.
I do have a problem with OPEC and the harm it has done my country.So i guess my Government should get off its rear and do something about it. If unions where violating legislation they would be dealt with.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878309
You tell me, But I guess the answer is no free market rules only apply to business the workers are free collude to subvert the system that made us the richest and most powerful nation in the world.
The workers of this country had and have a LARGE part in making this the richest and most powerful nation in the world.And unions have been a big part of that.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878352
The workers of this country had and have a LARGE part in making this the richest and most powerful nation in the world.And unions have been a big part of that.
On top of this, with the government influence that has given unions the power. Lower prices that would other wise be a truer reflection of market conditions are topped off. And I and every other American consumer, the 300 million people pay so that 12 million can be overpaid for work they do or don't do. So yes it is bad. The same concept of welfare.
But once again who am I to point out absurd concepts? After all it is only true if the union thug tells you so.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878374
On top of this, with the government influence that has given unions the power. Lower prices that would other wise be a truer reflection of market conditions are topped off. And I and every other American consumer, the 300 million people pay so that 12 million can be overpaid for work they do or don't do. So yes it is bad. The same concept of welfare.
But once again who am I to point out absurd concepts? After all it is only true if the union thug tells you so.
stdreb,i dont know what to tell ya man,my Union has been around since 1333 and im proud to be part of it.I am, believe it or not a Republican and i would put my country before Union but i think unions are getting the short end of the stick in this blame game we are playing here. Unfortunately for you i think its not going to change to much for you though.Having said that we will have to agree to disagree ,as niether of us will change our belief. I never asked you this but have asked to another poster.You know what i do,what do you do for a living?

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878374
On top of this, with the government influence that has given unions the power. Lower prices that would other wise be a truer reflection of market conditions are topped off. And I and every other American consumer, the 300 million people pay so that 12 million can be overpaid for work they do or don't do. So yes it is bad. The same concept of welfare.
But once again who am I to point out absurd concepts? After all it is only true if the union thug tells you so.
The only problem with your statement is that 15.7 million are members and how do you know the remainder of the other 300 million are largely opposed to unions ? Unions are filled with good people that try and buy only things Made In the USA.Can you say the same?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878387
stdreb,i dont know what to tell ya man,my Union has been around since 1333 and im proud to be part of it.I am, believe it or not a Republican and i would put my country before Union but i think unions are getting the short end of the stick in this blame game we are playing here. Unfortunately for you i think its not going to change to much for you though.Having said that we will have to agree to disagree ,as niether of us will change our belief. I never asked you this but have asked to another poster.You know what i do,what do you do for a living?
You work in construction? I work for a project management company in the oil field. I do a lot of cost controls type stuff. Look at invoices,
Look unions had their place, when the government was failing to police companies from unethical labor practices. But today they are just a drag on the economy. Speaking economically, there is some stickiness in labor that (based on some game theory) give the employer an upper hand negotiation wise. But not that much...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878401
The only problem with your statement is that 15.7 million are members and how do you know the remainder of the other 300 million are largely opposed to unions ? Unions are filled with good people that try and buy only things Made In the USA.Can you say the same?
Lets take this thread as a unscientific poll, you are the only one (besides zman) who has said anything good about unions...