What can we do to up the numbers?

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3050429
I just don’t understand where this has become a spoon feed forum for people not wanting to do the work to become a prolific marine aquarium keeper, the same questions asked over and over again which obviously show that the person asking the question does not want to at least spend the time to try to find the answer which has been given ad nauseum
So welcome the newbie and post a link they can follow....I have only been here 9 months or so....I guess I could have found a DIY on a sump/refugium, BUT Joe, you and Spanko, and a few others were gracious enough to walk me through it step by step....Sometimes people need (or want) that personal touch....(or attention)
 

hlcroghan

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3050429
I just don’t understand where this has become a spoon feed forum for people not wanting to do the work to become a prolific marine aquarium keeper, the same questions asked over and over again which obviously show that the person asking the question does not want to at least spend the time to try to find the answer which has been given ad nauseum
Oh I definitely agree. People should be strongly encouraged to do lots of their own research. But there is way to say that nicely and a way to make them feel as though they are on trial. It can be as simple as suggesting a website where there is some good info or letting them know that the search engine has some valuable info on said subject. But a lot of newbies don't even know where to begin looking for some info so they have to ask the very basic questions first, like about damsels and ich and garlic. For instance, when I first started my tank I got some bubble algae. I had no idea what it was. I didn't even know it was a type of algae. People were kind enough to tell me (thanks Spanko!!)but I have seen people being told to look it up instead of just giving them the answer. There is way to be helpful and a way to be hurtful.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3050429
I just don’t understand where this has become a spoon feed forum for people not wanting to do the work to become a prolific marine aquarium keeper, the same questions asked over and over again which obviously show that the person asking the question does not want to at least spend the time to try to find the answer which has been given ad nauseum
I'll go back to bubble algae. If I have it and have no idea what it is...then it is perfectly acceptable to post a pic and ask. When I am told that it is bubble algae, I can now research it on my own. If I had bubble algae and knew for a fact that it was bubble algae yet knew nothing about it, I wouldn't ask on this forum...I would use good old google. That's why when you ask what it is and get an answer, it is probably a better idea to research it than to ask the follow up questions that are terribly basic. You are wasting people's time when typing "bubble algae info" into google can get you the same (yet more elaborate) answer twice as fast. That's why in ID forums, unless the person says I can't find info on it, I just leave it alone after the ID is made. Or maybe I'm alone here and not making sense at all with a faulty logic
 

meowzer

Moderator
You are wasting people's time when typing "bubble algae info" into google can get you the same (yet more elaborate) answer twice as fast.
But you are then losing the personal "touch"....Are you going to tell me you don't enjoy the camaraderie associated with "personally" helping someone out..
 

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/3050450
Oh I definitely agree. People should be strongly encouraged to do lots of their own research.
We should have a discussion about what makes good research sources.... these forums are invaluable, but they are just one piece of the puzzle. I don't want to pull away from the main topic here though.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
New people should not even be expected to "research". Why did they come here? To get answers. That is the beginning of research... Joe, I came to you about Vodka dosing. Am I some "newb"? I had searched it and you seemed to know the most about it. I pm'd you rather than starting a thread. The information in the search did not do it for me. I wanted to talk to someone that has done it.
So, am I a bad member because I did a search on Vodka dosing and found the guy with the most knowledge about it and still asked questions?
New members should feel welcome to ask anything and anything that they would like.
I like Ophiura's post. Think about your doctor. How many times has he seen the same stuff over and over again. He doesn't kick you out of the door and tell you to go research, he welcomes you in and helps you out. That is what we are looking to do here.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/3050644
I like Ophiura's post. Think about your doctor. How many times has he seen the same stuff over and over again. He doesn't kick you out of the door and tell you to go research, he welcomes you in and helps you out. That is what we are looking to do here.
Said doctor also sends you a bill. The good doctor has a reason to want to help, other than seeing you get better.
I'll help anyone that asks for it. I'll even email tons of information that cannot be posted here. It does kinda stink to try to explain something to someone with no corroberating evidence. WWM has TONS of great info, but we can't even link to Bob's website. Same goes for the online aquarium magazines. We have to ask the person to google "this exact phrase" and click on the first answer to see what I'm talking about. Some of the threads here at SWF do lack substance because we can't link. I feel bad when I have to copy and paste their stuff.
Susan, I thought you left because of me.

I was beside myself trying to find a seastar expert to send people to.
Joe..........sir, your threads ROCK!
Nice thread PEZ.
I like the idea of starting a tech articles area. Allow seasoned veterans (pun intended, Joe) to write articles regarding specific aspects of the hobby. Give us local, (SWF) authoratative, and detailed information right here so we can link to our own info. Create an "Articles" forum like an online magazine. Ask Ret how to set it up. Heck, have him write an article. I know he just did one for another major source.
 

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/3050644
New people should not even be expected to "research". Why did they come here? To get answers. That is the beginning of research....
I disagree. How do you know who is giving you the best advice if you are following blindly? There is a lot of bad advice existing on forums. People have to be somewhat responsible for the decisions that make on their own tanks. Forums are just a part of the whole picture and should not be the only source of research, IMO.
 

pezenfuego

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3050658
.
I like the idea of starting a tech articles area. Allow seasoned veterans (pun intended, Joe) to write articles regarding specific aspects of the hobby. Give us local, (SWF) authoratative, and detailed information right here so we can link to our own info. Create an "Articles" forum like an online magazine. Ask Ret how to set it up. Heck, have him write an article. I know he just did one for another major source.
I love that idea!
That would be amazing for every member both old and new. You can just pop over there, pick an article on something you don't know a lot about, read it, and then be a more informed hobbyist. This is something we should consider
 

al mc

Active Member
I support the opinion of those who favor suggesting that people be directed/encouraged to do some research along the way to become better hobbyist than just answering the same question.
Example: Questions: My fish have Ich and my LFS said dump some Kick Ich in my reef tank
Answer: This may help reduce the parasite numbers but it is not a great idea to dump medications in your display tank. Please look at the archived thread written by Beth about treating Ich
JMHO
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
So welcome the newbie and post a link they can follow
So you are suggesting the proper protocol should be Welcome (I have no problem with that) question “ why do I need a QT?” answer give me a minute and I will do a search and post the link for you (I have a problem with that). If you are computer literate enough to join and log on you should be able to use the search future on your own. I am not saying don’t ask questions. I am saying take it upon yourself to search out the answers many of which are different views on the same topic which have been posted and then ask specific questions. Nubs are new to the hobby not new to the process of finding answers on the web IMO
 

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3050745
So you are suggesting the proper protocol should be Welcome (I have no problem with that) question “ why do I need a QT?” answer give me a minute and I will do a search and post the link for you (I have a problem with that). If you are computer literate enough to join and log on you should be able to use the search future on your own. I am not saying don’t ask questions. I am saying take it upon yourself to search out the answers many of which are different views on the same topic which have been posted and then ask specific questions. Nubs are new to the hobby not new to the process of finding answers on the web IMO
Yes and No....Why not just say there is a very informative write up on that in.....such and such
Sorry BUT I just do not have a problem with (if I know where something is) passing it along...granted you have been around a LOT longer than I have, and maybe in a year or so I may feel the same way.
 

jennythebugg

Active Member
Originally Posted by DeMartini
http:///forum/post/3049558
and you consider the people who don't even have a tank, but post in the aquarium all day good contributors to the board?
does it make us bad contributers to the board or something ?
i had heard from prvious members that they had issues with moderation. also i heard about the classifieds/trading issues...their loss.
 

jennythebugg

Active Member
i had heard from prvious members that they had issues with moderation. also i heard about the classifieds/trading issues...their loss.
 

yearofthenick

Active Member
Allow us to post animated GIF Avatars again!!! What a silly joke for a rule. It would be like limiting my TV usage to the Disney channel... it makes me feel like such a child for being so limited. Also, no signatures? C'mon, gimme a break. If that stuff gets abused, Ban the person. Plain and simple.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/3050811
Allow us to post animated GIF Avatars again!!! What a silly joke for a rule. It would be like limiting my TV usage to the Disney channel... it makes me feel like such a child for being so limited. Also, no signatures? C'mon, gimme a break. If that stuff gets abused, Ban the person. Plain and simple.
I think the animated gifs are a technical issue with the web site. When those were active, I had several systems whereby when I tried going to a page that had an animated gif, it would just freeze and not load the page. Since the animated gifs disappeared, I haven't had that issue. Could be some Java, .Net, or Framework version bug I had, but this happened on several different PC's trying IE, Safari, and Firefox.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/3049075
There are a lot of people that hang in the aquarium that I never see in the main forums,
lol, who me?
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3049225
So here is the question -
One of the issues with those forums was that there were people who were running side businesses. It was felt there were people who ONLY used that forum. So if they left because of this, does it prove the point? That they were mostly using just that forum, and so it didn't necessarily contribute to the overall board? Just a thought...I am suspicious of the idea that so many "regular" people left simply because two forums - that were special interest - were removed. By regular I mean people who were not running any sort of high turnover frag or side business.
I am interested in understanding more on the impact of removing those forums, beyond just saying to bring them back.
I completely agree.
Originally Posted by AquaKnight

http:///forum/post/3049507
IMHO it's a shift in the demographic that visit 'forums' as a whole as Cranberry stated. I regularly visit a couple different genres of forums, auto, r/c, fish, and the slow down @ SWF is very similar to slower post counts at my other boards.
As long as we're being 100% honest, and I hate to be negative-nancy, but let me throw this out there, the shift is happening because of a 'different' mentally of newer members. There seems to be a lack of members that 'want to become experts.' It's better described on cars, people don't want to learn how their engine works, that just want to know how to fix their car's problem.
In SWF terms, I guess it's like people just want to know how to keep their Hippo tangs and clownfish well-enough. They don't want to say learn about how the actual collection process happens, the different families of fish, how fish classification happens, etc. Christ I think I'm one of the last ones that actually posts the scientific name of fish here anymore.
They also aren't interested in the same topics as the experts. Some really rare fish that might excite an expert, they view the same fish as pretentious because of how much it costs. Some people are just what to know if this light fixture is good enough to keep clams/SPS, they don't want to learn the in's and out of lumen readings, photo periods, etc.
The radio control hobby went through this a couple years ago. Before, all of the hobby grade cars, you basically had to know how to turn a wrench fairly well, otherwise the hobby was way over your head. Then came ready to run cars, out of the box ready to go. Anyone go buy a hobby grade r/c car. Then they turn to the boards and just want to know how to fix their car when it breaks. They don't want to learn about how or why it did.
And then these constant mundane (if I can use that w/o being to harsh) questions drive out the expert/old timers who get bored. Same thing with keeping saltwater fish now. Before, you either were an expert or became one because of the learning curve. Nowadays, people just want a reef tank. They don't want to learn everything there is about it.
I completely agree, now that it is getting easier and more simple to have a sw tank. You have people who aren't hobbiest, but just want a tank.
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
http:///forum/post/3049699
I see your point and I can agree to a certain degree. However, where is the line drawn? When is it too much? I have seen many boards that are virtually rule-free where the members treat each other terribly and it goes unregulated. I would hate to see these forums turn into something like that.
As Ophiura said, keep the suggestions and feedback coming!!
I know, i used to frequent a forum, where the rules are more lax. I gave up, there is only so much garbage I can handle reading. ESPECIALLY when what i say gets the attention of the heads. While other stuff goes unaddressed.
Originally Posted by hlcroghan

http:///forum/post/3050415
My suggestion is to definitely bring the trade forums back. Not the buy sell ones. Just the trade. That would ensure competitors are not selling here. Or to allow people to do it with PM.
Just what happens when I send a pm to the "trader" and say how much to just buy it... I don't think that line is going to be an easily policed line. With this one it is either going to be all or nothing...
 
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