whats wrong w/ america?!

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Here's what you don't get , this people are the poor/ignorant..The reason why they keep having babies it's cause they're Illegal and they don't have access to Plan Parenthood , or places were they give birth control and such..it's the same in Mexico, poor people don't have access to that.. and since Mexico is mostly poor(economically) that's why mexicans are known to have big families..
Its pathetic how people think that all Mexicans are like the ones in East L.A.
have you ever been to mexico around middle class people? ..or had any mexican friends that were educated?.. i'm guessing NOT..
I'm afraid to tell you but most of the people on Welfare are poor black/white Americans and if there's any Hispanics they're mostlikely that they were born here.(therefore are Not mexican Illegals) remenber Illegals can't get foodstamps or be on Welfare..
OK, let me get this right. They keep having babies because they dont have access to birth control?
The last time I checked condoms were availible in Mexico and the US.
Have I ever been to Mexico? Im there at least once a week otherwise I wouldnt have made the point about the ignorance involved with intentionally having children when you cant afford them.
Regarding the food stamps and welfare issue, many steal social security #s to apply for these programs in addtion to receiving free health care (i.e having babies in emergency rooms).And the children born of illeagal aliens are entitled to government assistance. Check the prison populations sometime also, guess who pays for their incarceration expenses.
If they are undocumented, how do you know how many there are? Why cant Mexico fix its own problems instead of cowardly exporting them?

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
And that's the Immigrants fault?

Cut it like this, Lets' say a minor (of age) walks into a 7/11 store wanting to buy Alcohol/cigarrets, and he kind-of looks old enuf but could also look like he's Not...and the clerk at the 711 fails to ask for I.D, She just ASSumes that "he's old enuf or else he' wouldn't be trying to buy Booz"...
Now, is it the minor's fault? Or the clerk's ? Try that for homework!!

No ID,
No dope.
Burden of proof is on the buyer.
If clerk didn't ask for ID then ATF should bust her chops.
If clerk asked and was given false documents with no way to verify the information then the govt. has dropped the ball.
I can buy ANYTHING in L.A. so to say bogus docs are hard to come by is a joke. It's probably easier to buy docs. in TJ where the local govt. will probably help you with the process. You probably recall that Federalis were sent to TJ to relieve the police force while ballistics checks were performed on officer's weapons due to executions by police officers. Mexico needs to rid itself of corruption on a grand scale.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Our economy would not halt if we exported every illegal today...
You folks keep arguinb both sides of the coin. On the one hand you're saying these illegals are low income, uneducated people working jobs that no one wants. Then on the other side you argue it's "big businesses" fault. Which is it? You can't argue both sides.
It may Not halt but just think of what you're saying. the economy will have a major impact for sure.. who's going to clean,wash dishes,work the fields,Landscape your lawn,make you a burrito,build a house,work at the wood mills, and that's just a few...
I will argue both sides of the coin cause the majority is FACTS not MEDIA BS..
All i'm trying to point out is that the Illegal part starts here in the US..i don't get how people don't get that? Aslong as the companies keep hiring Illegals they will FOR SURE keep coming..
p.s. You're not racist nor anti-hispanic? yet we are focusing on mexicans here and you say you're anti-mexico.

sorry to hear you've been a victim of mexican crime..

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Jovial
OK, let me get this right. They keep having babies because they dont have access to birth control?
The last time I checked condoms were availible in Mexico and the US.
Have I ever been to Mexico? Im there at least once a week otherwise I wouldnt have made the point about the ignorance involved with intentionally having children when you cant afford them.
Regarding the food stamps and welfare issue, many steal social security #s to apply for these programs in addtion to receiving free health care (i.e having babies in emergency rooms).And the children born of illeagal aliens are entitled to government assistance. Check the prison populations sometime also, guess who pays for their incarceration expenses.
do they have condoms in mexico?

NOT FOR FREE !! like here in the US.
Jovial, i wouldn't call driving from Nevada to Tijuana going to mexico.. try going more down South..That just tells me how you get your ideas..

As for stealing the Social security #'s to get foodstamps

again it all comes down to the Goverment not Verifying documents.. As for who pays their incarceration expenses? Ok, if you go back a little in the thread you'll see how my question was IGNORED..
WHAT DOES THE GOVERMENT DO WITH THE MONEY THAT ILLEGALS ARE NOT GETTING REFUNDED? cause the IRS doesn't refund people with fake Social security #.. That means that those Illegals are paying for the incarcerations and people on welfare..

 

[seasalt101]

i think if an illegal is willing to serve 4 years in the military, learn english, then they should be granted citizenship and in turn the g.i bill will grant them the opportunity to get educated so they do not have to pick lettuce for a living but they must serve 4 honorably that to me seems like a fair trade...tobin

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
It...
All i'm trying to point out is that the Illegal part starts here in the US..i don't get how people don't get that? Aslong as the companies keep hiring Illegals they will FOR SURE keep coming..
p.s. You're not racist nor anti-hispanic? yet we are focusing on mexicans here and you say you're anti-mexico.

sorry to hear you've been a victim of mexican crime..
I've said repeatedly I'm all for punishing employers. What I don't get is how "big" business is responsible for hiring dish washers and landscapers (your words).
I'm focusing on Mexicans because I live in Texas. The state with the largest exploited border. If our schools and hospitals in S. Texas were being overun by romanians I've be decrying Romania. Especially if Romania was providing maps and tips to avoid the Border Patrol.
Again... We are currently housing 10% of Mexico's population.
As for crime... my immediate family has been a victim of a crime commited by an illegal (who happened to be Mexican. They caught those responsible)

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
And that's the Immigrants fault?

Cut it like this, Lets' say a minor (of age) walks into a 7/11 store wanting to buy Alcohol/cigarrets, and he kind-of looks old enuf but could also look like he's Not...and the clerk at the 711 fails to ask for I.D, She just ASSumes that "he's old enuf or else he' wouldn't be trying to buy Booz"...
Now, is it the minor's fault? Or the clerk's ? Try that for homework!!

Actually both receive the same penalty in all states jail time plus a fine.
Now my perception is this...You have to have one before the other. If the Illegal immigrant didnt enter the country by breaking the law it wouldn't tempt the small business to higher them and cause a second crime.
If a guy kills someone a gun...Is the guy to blame that sold him the gun for the murder (even if sold illegally)?
The answer is no....as each individual is responsible for themselves...we forget that in this country

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Now my perception is this...You have to have one before the other. If the Illegal immigrant didnt enter the country by breaking the law it wouldn't tempt the small business to higher them and cause a second crime.
I think you have it backwards....it's the available jobs that tempt the illegals to come here in the first place. If there were no jobs they would not have an incentive to come...again, it's just another example of people here pushing the blame or not understanding the situation.

 

[darthtang aw]

available jobs to LEGAL citizens were what were in place first, Therefore the illegals crossed the borders, then jobs were given to illegal citizens...I never heard of an add running in any paper Reading "WANTED Illegal iMMIGRANT for crappy job of picking lettuce". No the jobs were there for legals in the first place.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
available jobs to LEGAL citizens were what were in place first, Therefore the illegals crossed the borders, then jobs were given to illegal citizens...I never heard of an add running in any paper Reading "WANTED Illegal iMMIGRANT for crappy job of picking lettuce". No the jobs were there for legals in the first place.

Well, if these companies did their proper due diligence and ran background checks and didn't hire the illegals then they wouldn't come but since they know they can find jobs they come. Come on, this isn't that hard to understand is it? You can not blame the illegals for coming when they know they will be hired...you can only put the blame where????
They might not run adds but word of mouth is just as good...

 

[darthtang aw]

Furthermore, not all illegal immigrants come here and apply at these jobs where companies hire illegals. Many of them use fake documents to come here...so they are coming here with the intent to falsely represent themselves. I wonder how many that blame the companies actually own or run a business and understand howe much a business's hands are truly tied when checking documentation.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I've said repeatedly I'm all for punishing employers. What I don't get is how "big" business is responsible for hiring dish washers and landscapers (your words).
Again... We are currently housing 10% of Mexico's population.
As for crime... my immediate family has been a victim of a crime commited by an illegal (who happened to be Mexican. They caught those responsible)
1journeyman, Everything is responsible for the hiring Illegals, I'll admit We have some of the blame. there i said it !! but small business, big business, the IRS, the Goverment. has the majority of the blame, if you can't see that then you like to play blind or you have nothing to back it up..
Journey, i feel sorry to hear about your family and whish them the very best, and GOD blessed them..
But if the criminal were to be white/american would you feel the same about Hispanics?
Did he actually told you face-to-face he was from Mexico? Do you know the difference between a Hispanic and a Mexican?
My family has been victims of black/Hispanis/white crime, But guess what? none of us hold any remorse against those other races. S***....We even been victims of crime in Mexico and we still love it. if Mexico didn't have so much corruption/crime/poverty. Why would we wanna come here?

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Furthermore, not all illegal immigrants come here and apply at these jobs where companies hire illegals. Many of them use fake documents to come here...so they are coming here with the intent to falsely represent themselves. I wonder how many that blame the companies actually own or run a business and understand howe much a business's hands are truly tied when checking documentation.

Again, wouldn't we avoid that if the US Goverment were to make Legal/Mandatory to verify documents?
As for running a business, been there done that.. But if you really wanted to check! there are ways.. But if a was running a company/business, i could see how i wouldn't like to know about those ways cause it will hurt my business. Wouldn't it ?
My production will totally decline and i would have to pay More for Less. It makes sense doesn't it?

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
do they have condoms in mexico?

NOT FOR FREE !! like here in the US.
Jovial, i wouldn't call driving from Nevada to Tijuana going to mexico.. try going more down South..That just tells me how you get your ideas..

As for stealing the Social security #'s to get foodstamps

again it all comes down to the Goverment not Verifying documents.. As for who pays their incarceration expenses? Ok, if you go back a little in the thread you'll see how my question was IGNORED..
WHAT DOES THE GOVERMENT DO WITH THE MONEY THAT ILLEGALS ARE NOT GETTING REFUNDED? cause the IRS doesn't refund people with fake Social security #.. That means that those Illegals are paying for the incarcerations and people on welfare..

Condoms are cheaper than children, no matter where you live.
NV is where I call home not where I reside year round. Sorry for the confusion? Borders are where they are crossing and where most of the illeagal tunnels are discovered, not further down south.
This has been explained several times but your not getting it, just because the government dosent catch them or verify the documents doesnt make it OK to break our laws, ignorance is not an excuse. Why is this so hard to understand? It's a matter of integrity, do you feel it is OK to steal if you do not get caught?
I dont understand what your asking, "what does the government do with the money Illeagals are not getting refunded? " if they are paid under the table (which many are) then they are not taxed, so the health care and schooling that their children receive for free gets paid for by the citizens of the United States?
The stolen SSNs that are used are not detected until the person who legitimately owns the *** reports it or it shows up on a credit report. By this time the damage is done. Illeagal aliens also change jobs so frequently it becomes difficult for the IRS to track.
Dont forget to include the #s that drive on our roads who dont speak or read english. What happens when they kill someone with a motor vehicle, like my friend who was killed by an illeagal alien who hit his car head on. Who pays for this since they have no DL or insurance.
And dont forget the earned income credit entitlement? the ones that are paying taxes through work visas often qualify for this allowance... so in reality we are paying them for breaking our laws. And lets not forget the additional medical costs mentioned earlier. Once again, why should American taxpayers pay for criminals to break our laws.
Some folks like to make this a racial issue because by doing so they think it supercharges the debate and makes it look like the Illeagals are victims when in reality it is a lack of personal responsibility on their part. Lets address illeagal immigration for what it really is. A drain to our economy. Mexico should fix it's own problems instead of cowardly importing them here. Loyalty to whom.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
available jobs to LEGAL citizens were what were in place first, Therefore the illegals crossed the borders, then jobs were given to illegal citizens...I never heard of an add running in any paper Reading "WANTED Illegal iMMIGRANT for crappy job of picking lettuce". No the jobs were there for legals in the first place.
This is a good analogy.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Jovial
This is a good analogy.

Jovial, do you wear glasses? or have a Vision problem ? It's patethic how people get ideas from the border states. But i can see why! that's why i live in Oregon. I wouldn't like to live in Mexico city either..too crowded..
You really have no idea what your saying do you?" LANDSCAPERS,TACO BELL WORKERS , JANITORS, RESTAURANT WORKERS , SMALL BUSINESS WORKERS, DON'T PAY UNDER THE TABLE" they may along the borders but Not around here!! Now, this people are getting Taxed Automatically and they DO NOT get refunded by the IRS.. Now where's that money going?
Again with the "what about the ones with stolen SS#"

..Then make it Legal to verify documents. a 10 year old child can figure this out..

As for the #'s of illegals driving..Man you really need to get Out/ Around..cause over here in Oregon a see mostly Hillbillies and hipies.. Try to base your fatcs on different things other than what's going on in the border states..
If you wanna have a good debate i'll give it to you! but make sure you come back with good points or you will be sacrificed..

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Jovial, do you wear glasses? or have a Vision problem ? It's patethic how people get ideas from the border states. But i can see why! that's why i live in Oregon.
You really have no idea what your saying do you?" LANDSCAPERS,TACO BELL WORKERS , JANITORS, RESTAURANT WORKERS , SMALL BUSINESS WORKERS, DON'T PAY UNDER THE TABLE" they may along the borders but Not around here!! Now, this people are getting Taxed Automatically and they DO NOT get refunded by the IRS.. Now where's that money going?
Again with the "what about the ones with stolen SS#"

..Then make it Legal to verify documents. a 10 year old child can understand this..

As for the #'s of illegals driving..Man you really need to get Out/ Around..cause over here in Oregon a see mostly Hillbillies and hipies.. Try to base your fatcs on different things other than what's going on in the border states..
If you wanna have a good debate i'll give it to you! but make sure you come back with good points or you will be sacrificed..

Still bitter, consider decaf instead?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Jovial
I really dont see the need to get hostile (no pun intended). Maybe you should switch to decaf?
Oh come on, that was not hostile there is no need to be sensitive...
BTW, even if the Mexican Government is helping their people get jobs how does that make them cowards? I could see if they were in war with Guatemala and they were fleeing to the US then they might be cowards...think you need to rephrase that. Are American’s that get meds in Canada because it’s cheaper there make them cowards??

 

[seasalt101]

what is not being addressed here are the illegals that don't want a job, the criminals that cross the border back and forth to avoid prosecution the one's that use tunnels to disperse their drugs, weed, cocaine etc. i think we do need to use military force to protect u.s citizens and if mexico is providing maps to rid there population of undesirables, then we should attack, and annex mexico...tobin

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
what is not being addressed here are the illegals that don't want a job, the criminals that cross the border back and forth to avoid prosecution the one's that use tunnels to disperse their drugs, weed, cocaine etc. i think we do need to use military force to protect u.s citizens and if mexico is providing maps to rid there population of undesirables, then we should attack, and annex mexico...tobin
Brilliant! We already stole Texas, New Mexico and California...why not??? I love that Texas right-wing mentality, must be a result of the terrible tex-mex food you guys eat.