whats wrong w/ america?!

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I don't get it, what does courage and guts have to do with this...how old are you? It comes down to economics, they have little $$ and we have a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. The problem in Mexico is that there are few with a lot of money and many with little or no money and I'd be willing to bet the powers that be want to keep it that way.
Ok, lets try to keep it civil, this is a good thread.
And why is this so? Have you had a chance to study American History? The USA isnt powerful because we ran/run from our problems. Taxation without representation was about economics also. Taxation had a huge economic impact on people, and still does, very similar to the way the taxes of American citizens are abused to provide services to people who break our laws and come here illeagally. It took a great deal of courage to do what our fore fathers did.

 

[jmick]

I agree that our forefather did have a great deal of courage and were amazing people! But that is apples to oranges, Mexico does not have the natural resources we do, the collective mind power, same legal structure and the have's vs. the have nots are out of whack.

 

[seasalt101]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I agree that our forefather did have a great deal of courage and were amazing people! But that is apples to oranges, Mexico does not have the natural resources we do, the collective mind power, same legal structure and the have's vs. the have nots are out of whack.
ok this is a heavy duty liberal/communism statement, mexicans can vote they choose their leaders if they want to change things they can and mexico has a bunch and i mean a bunch of oil, if they want to make things better let them start a civil war there and not just run north, haves and have nots i have 5 tv's in my house my neighbor has 1 should i just let him have 2 of my tv"s so we are equal, their are legal ways to enter this country at one time it sounds like aztec reef was illegal if that is true and he is legal now that would mean that if you jump through the proper hoops you can be legal, and the people in the north part of the country don't understand the problems on the border states and if they did they would be saying the same thing we are until canadiens are taking their jobs and collecting the welfare that is paid for by hard working americans they will see it as a southern right-wing problem as their eyes are closed or they are illegals themselves...tobin

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Aztec, your area isn't as impacted as the border states. We see it more and live through it. Thus why some of what we say happens you have never or never will see.
Actually my friend, i lived in (Orange county)Santa Ana, Ocean side , also Sand diego and the big 213 .and still have family in Cali.. you think i flew from mexico to Oregon? like said . why do you think i live here in Oregon?

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Stole? , more like conqured. I love how the liberal left tries to justify weakness, instead of encouraging strength. How about some Aztec history.
FYI: im not going with left or right, i'm going with FACTS and just so you know i've always have voted Republican. and i'm as Mexican as it can be..
Now is about Aztecs? Come on!! did you just watched Apocalypto?

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I agree that our forefather did have a great deal of courage and were amazing people! But that is apples to oranges, Mexico does not have the natural resources we do, the collective mind power, same legal structure and the have's vs. the have nots are out of whack.

Hasn't this been true of every country that has had a revoloutionary war?
http://www.theamericanresistance.com...2004jan04.html

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
FYI: im not going with left or right, i'm going with FACTS and just so you know i've always have voted Republican. and i'm as Mexican as it can be..
Now is about Aztecs? Come on!! did you just watched Apocalypto?
I prefer to see myself as an American.
Thats good to know, can you list some facts on how much illeagal aliens are costing the American taxpayers then?
Maybe this will help, it was written by a Republican.
http://www.alphapatriot.com/home/arc..._fun_facts.php
http://www.theamericanresistance.com...2004jan04.html

 

[seasalt101]

jovial nice link if the liberals will read it they will just label it propaganda or something the right wing made up they are in such denial...tobin

 

[jovial]

Thanks tobin,very hard to understand the liberal mindset. I feel as Americans our loyalty should be to our country first. Did I mention that I was not born in the USA either but Im an American and did it the legal way.

 

[seasalt101]

to me if they are not loyal to america they are a traitor no gray here it's black or white

 

[jmick]

See, I just don't see how anyone can view an issue as black and white? There are too many factors to take into consideration when you look at the big picture not to see some gray in it. The links you provided did have some good info but they are right wing propaganda, just look at the sources. I am proud to be an American, this is the best country in the world and it is the land of opportunity with more of everything then we could ever need. I consider myself as patriotic as anyone, I pay my taxes, I vote, I give to charities, I contribute in a very positive way to my community and to the economy. I do not always agree and follow like a puppy with what the government does. As Americans we have the right to free speech and the right to question the powers that be and not taking advantage of that is unpatriotic.
Also, I am not as liberal as some of you might like to believe...I don't believe free health care for all (except for children), I hate abortions, I have no issues with guns (except for assult style guns), I like to hunt/fish, I hate Hilary C and I think people are responsible for their actions. I just look at the whole picture before forming my opinions and for some odd reason, I see people that want to provide better lives for their families as a good thing, especialy when they are given the opportunity...I know I'd do the same without a second thought.
I want just one of you to answer if you were on the other side of the border what would you do if you had a hungry family and had an opportunity to provide a better life immediately?

 

[seasalt101]

if i was on the other side how can i assume that i am on the other side i am not i am here i was born here and this is where my loyalty is, the illegals are criminals, that is black and white, in the gray area that to me does not exist are the liberals defending criminals, the indians hunted to provide for their families, the africans are in poor countries and they survive and rebel against oppressive governments let the mexicans take their problems to the mexican leaders and not live off of taxpayer dollars here (the welfare collectors) which they do get, and it cost the tax payers money to ship them back too...tobin

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
if i was on the other side how can i assume that i am on the other side i am not i am here i was born here and this is where my loyalty is, the illegals are criminals, that is black and white, in the gray area that to me does not exist are the liberals defending criminals, the indians hunted to provide for their families, the africans are in poor countries and they survive and rebel against oppressive governments let the mexicans take their problems to the mexican leaders and not live off of taxpayer dollars here (the welfare collectors) which they do get, and it cost the tax payers money to ship them back too...tobin
I knew you were going to say that and that is your problem. Your inablity to see an issue from another persons prespective blinds you to the big picture and it's kind of sad. I can only imagine what your thoughts would be like if you had grown up in the 40's and 50's and what your view of the cival rights would have been or woman's lib.
Btw, have you seen what's going on in Africa, those poor people are hardly surviving and live a dismal existence so please don't compare them.

 

[seasalt101]

well if you know me so well, which it is not hard to do as i am a right wing conservative we all think alike right is right and wrong is wrong i wonder if you were in europe and you were jewish how you would feel about people crossing borders and taking your jobs, among other attrocities i see the mexican invasion just that an invasion draining our rescources and sending their money via ************* back to mexico not even putting the money back into our economy and i have seen this happen several hundred times...tobin

 

[seasalt101]

to me it is obvious you are a liberal, pacifist, someone who is grateful somebody else gave their life for your freedom but feel no remorse for their sacrifice, maybe even hateful towards them as there was a war involved with your freedom but you do not care you are above that you are holier than thou you do not need god you are god you are pathetic no backboned person that thinks communism is the answer every one is equal no the strong will survive and the people like you will lay over and hold your kids in a huddled corner and say it will be alright as your family and neighbors would be trampled and you would just watch...tobin

 

[jmick]

You can not compare Europe to the US...their combined unemployment rate is about 8.5% and in the US it's about 4.5. Now, if our rate was that high then I would say we have a problem but there are jobs out there for those willing to work. I'd imagine that many who are currently unemployed aren't really looking hard for jobs or might not be employable due to age, physical limitations or other reasons.
I have always wanted to know this, in areas where there is high numbers of illegals do you have to pay a state tax or do they simply raise the sales tax?
I assume you know how much their paychecks were and saw them put all of their money into ************* to send home, sure they didn’t save any for themselves…probably thought it’d be fun to rob a local gas station for their spending money huh?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
to me it is obvious you are a liberal, pacifist, someone who is grateful somebody else gave their life for your freedom but feel no remorse for their sacrifice, maybe even hateful towards them as there was a war involved with your freedom but you do not care you are above that you are holier than thou you do not need god you are god you are pathetic no backboned person that thinks communism is the answer every one is equal no the strong will survive and the people like you will lay over and hold your kids in a huddled corner and say it will be alright as your family and neighbors would be trampled and you would just watch...tobin
A pacifist, lol anyone who knows me would say the quite the opposite and I doubt anyone would likely say that to my face...much easier over the web I guess? When did I become a communist, do you know what a communist is?
See, I would never insult you like this and I think it's sad you need to resort to this type of behavior and it shows your true colors...you need to resort to name calling when you can't come up with anything else to bring to the table.
I don't think everyone is equal and if we have the means I think it's compassionate to help those who are weaker, I'd think as a religious man you'd feel the same way? Didn't Jesus teach you that, I thought that was one of his teaching?

 

[seasalt101]

i've seen alot of transactions in the 2500 range no we do not have a state income tax but we pay 8.25% sales tax i'm wondering if you are illegal now or at 1 time or just a liberal/commi...tobin

 

[seasalt101]

when you said the haves and the have nots everyone has the same in your world i do not mix words i call them as i see them...tobin

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
when you said the haves and the have nots everyone has the same in your world i do not mix words i call them as i see them...tobin
Wow, think you read a few words and jump to conclusions. There will always be the rich and the poor that is fine, that's life but when you have only a few super rich and many many many poor and a small middle class you have problems my friend. I work hard for my money and so does my wife, we are entitled to it and someone who does less is entitled to what they get and it should be substantially less. You need to think before you jump to conclusions.