whats wrong w/ america?!

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
what i was pointing out with the bet and black scholarship points were if a white network got started only showing white only t.v, commercials etc that the black people would scream at the f.c.c. till it was removed, and same with a scholarship for anglos that would be disciminatory, if you think otherwise you are crazy...tobin
what I am saying is that these things exist. There are scholarships for anglos, and pretty much for every group.
Do have a problem with scholarships for any ethnic group?
BET is a mainstream station, there are commercials with people of all races ... there are shows that have white actors.
again, BET was established because of the lack of programming for Black people on television that talked about issues important to our community or things we wanted to see.
BET has changed and is now owned by a large corporation...Viacom I believe.
Is telemudo and hispanic stations discriminatory to you also?
....its obvious you have a race problem...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
there is one dumb, ignorant statement. ONE person says something you don't like and you attribute it to "southern mentality". how does making such a blind statement make you any better than someone attributing high crime or illiteracy rates to "black mentality". several different times throughout this thread, you've blanketed entire groups of people under rigid terms like "white America" or "southern mentality". these kinds of statements make you no better than the racists that you're supposedly speaking up against.
What contributes to high crime and illieracy is mainly ecomomic...these things are true for any community. And I am not blanketing entire groups of people by such termas... I used the term to describe the way of thinking of many southerners and I guess people in general who are predujuce against blacks. I'm sorry if I offended you, I guess it was either that or just flat out calling him bigoted or racist. Not all southerners are racists, I just happen to be dealing with two who probably are. what I meant is that he and maybe you as feel that slavery was not that bad, and the slave owners did not treat there slaves that bad.which is not true, they were treated like aninmals....Did you say you were persecuted

...I'd say you were just made fun of...it happens to many people during that time of life... I had a pimple and I was persecuted too...
What makes someone racist is when they believe there race is better than that of others. My statements do not reflect that. I have relationships that extend beyond the work place with people of pretty much all races. However, I do feel most of your comments reflect something different. And that is fine, we are products of our environment in a large part.
I'm out for tonight...happy debating...and reefing...

 

[seasalt101]

i'm originally from california the most liberal state in the country, you seem to keep missing what i am saying and that is pay attention here, we as white people do not advertise any scholarship, corporations will maybe make a brief statement but no way throw any race in there any scholarship a white kid receives a black, hispanic, oriental, whatever all of them qualify. end of point and i am thinking you are young and cannot remember t.v shows from the sixties and 70's i won't mention them again but several shows had black actors on them, and it wasn't until the 60's that we tried to correct any of the nations wrongs so in a short amount of time blacks had their own shows and white people watched them and have tried to learn the black way of thinking and understanding them but you have people like jesse jackson, and al sharpton as your supposed leaders, your hip hop artist shooting each other what are we supposed to do?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
i'm originally from california the most liberal state in the country, you seem to keep missing what i am saying and that is pay attention here, we as white people do not advertise any scholarship, corporations will maybe make a brief statement but no way throw any race in there any scholarship a white kid receives a black, hispanic, oriental, whatever all of them qualify. end of point and i am thinking you are young and cannot remember t.v shows from the sixties and 70's i won't mention them again but several shows had black actors on them, and it wasn't until the 60's that we tried to correct any of the nations wrongs so in a short amount of time blacks had their own shows and white people watched them and have tried to learn the black way of thinking and understanding them but you have people like jesse jackson, and al sharpton as your supposed leaders, your hip hop artist shooting each other what are we supposed to do?
one last comment... this is your best post... because you don't advertise it doesn't mean they don't exist. I guess you are refering to the UNCF? I am younger than you and I am probably more familar with scholarships than you...There are websites and books that lists all the scholarships available and there are many scholarships that apply to only people of certain races or ethnicities...not just black people.. These leaders you speak of don't speak for the entire black race.... I want you to know more about black people but you may not have the opportunity to... there are problems within the "black community" that need to be resolved... these issues are primarly ecomomic and drug related. If you look at the roles black people played on television, though funny at times...what picture does that paint for the entire race...We are more than people who live in a junk yard or in the projects, we are more than fast talking "jive" people. The Cosbys was a great show because it shows you we are more than what you see in news stories or what your perceptions may be. Why is it that you have a problem with BET and UNCF... do you think it takes away from you and gives you less of an opportunity?
I agree with you here a little... I see gangs of black youths all the time who are in their teens, and I want to fix these problems. But again it is a result that deals more with education and economics. Slavery and civil rights are not as much of an issue as they were say 30-40 years ago, even though there is a cause-effect relationship.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
What contributes to high crime and illieracy is mainly ecomomic...these things are true for any community. And I am not blanketing entire groups of people by such termas... I used the term to describe the way of thinking of many southerners and I guess people in general who are predujuce against blacks. I'm sorry if I offended you, I guess it was either that or just flat out calling him bigoted or racist. Not all southerners are racists, I just happen to be dealing with two who probably are. what I meant is that he and maybe you as feel that slavery was not that bad, and the slave owners did not treat there slaves that bad.which is not true, they were treated like aninmals....Did you say you were persecuted

...I'd say you were just made fun of...it happens to many people during that time of life... I had a pimple and I was persecuted too...
What makes someone racist is when they believe there race is better than that of others. My statements do not reflect that. I have relationships that extend beyond the work place with people of pretty much all races. However, I do feel most of your comments reflect something different. And that is fine, we are products of our environment in a large part.
I'm out for tonight...happy debating...and reefing...
you're good at making assumptions. seems you're pretty stuck in your racist mentality. you've made several racist statements throughout this thread and I'm done attempting to have an intelligent conversation with someone who's not capable of such. have a nice life.

 

[darthtang aw]

I feel the need to chime in here now. I have watched this deteriorate almost to the point where each poster is calling each other a racist without so much as saying it point blank. That needs to stop. I enjoy these types of discussions, but at no time should they become personal. You can make your point and disagree without making comments towards each other that I have seen. So I am asking for this to stop now. This is directed at everyone.
Ok, to continue on..
Originally Posted by Rylan1
There are bigger issues than movies and so forth, but they all relate to one another and are part of the bigger issue that race is a major problem in this country. Just because you have worked with someone doesnt mean you truly know them... I am not complaining about my childhood... someone mentioned BET, scholarships, and affirmative action and welfare.
I believe seasalt mentioned that BET and Black scholarships are reverse racism, which they are not and I gave you proof by telling you reason why they were established. There are scholarships for italian americans, red heads, handicapped people, and so forth...are these reverse racism too?
There is one major fault with these types of programs. You compare the Italian scholarships to the UNCF scholarships. They are not the same. The Italian one only goes to Italians. The UNCF goes to any one that has black skin. There is not one college fund that grants to people of white skin...you must be of a certain ethnicity. Here is where it is wrong in my eyes. I am german, French, English, Native American, Danish and Irish. So where is my Scholarship based off my ethnicity or skin. There isn't one. I disagree with BET and UNCF purely on the premises that what they play is all skin color related or the scholarships they grant are skin color related first. You compared the Italian scholarship to the UNCF...which is an unfaior comparrison......for them to be equal it would have to be the south african college fund and the applicant would have to prove they majority of their heritage (over 1/2) is from south african decent....Or the ethiopian college fund and would have to prove the same. A flat scholarship purly based off of skin color then academice is actually reverse segregation against myself. I do not fit into any scholarship fund category, based off of race or ethnicity....so I have been discriminated against. This is why I believe these programs are wrong. It should be based off of academics first....and never ethnicity or race. In this day and age....EVERY person in this country (that is legal citizen) has the same opportunity to learn and educate themselves in school to succeed in life. Explain to me how one's race prevents you from learning in school and expanding your mind in a level that colleges would accept you on their own scholarships?
As for BET...what was the first white person played on BET regularly and how long after BET was formed did it take them to put a white musician on their programming? You can't tell me black folks didn't listen to white musicians...
Originally Posted by Rylan1
I can say that there are many more white people on welfare, but again you'll try to spin this.
True...the law of averages would make this obvious....however we can compare percentages and that might be different...but I don't see the point in it.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
The reality is that there is a different america for everybody espeically along cultural lines, racial lines, and economic lines...what proof do I need to show you?
This is a statement used by those that wish to excuse failure and behavior. In my childhood growing up, I lived in the suburb, Ghetto, Military base, Farm, Barrio, and Upper class neighborhood. The fundamental similarity between all of these....schooling. I went to school and did what I was supposed to do...got my education, paid attention in class...even while getting picked on or had raciosts action towards myself because I was the white kid in a mainly black school. Yet I still managed to graduate high school...go out, get a career, moved up the ladder because of my work ethic and not my skin color, became upper management and now own my own business. I have no college education.....I took out no loans.....I saved money, and worked hard and learned what I could every chance I got. But I suppose since I am white, this is different than what any other AMERICAN in this country could have done.
I believe seasalt mentioned that BET and Black scholarships are reverse racism, which they are not and I gave you proof by telling you reason why they were established. There are scholarships for italian americans, red heads, handicapped people, and so forth...are these reverse racism too?
[/QUOTE]

 

[ophiura]

Thanks Darth -
I agree.
These discussions are actually important to have, IMO. But not if they deteriorate into name calling.
That is a mighty hefty word to be tossing around so lightly...and really it is not all that applicable.
Making broad generalizations does not mean that people are racists. I think we need to keep an open mind. Ask yourself if you would be shouting down people as "racist!" if you were having this same discussion over a beer or dinner.
It is important to have these discussion. Very important. But please don't let it slide into name calling.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
.

I don't quite understand what you are saying with the last statement, I guess you are saying that the circumstances were reverse in your situation. And you are kind of making a generalzation that black people are not capable or are unwilling to have the same success in life as you have. Success has a lot to do with the choices you make in life, due to circumstance and the influence of God, some people choose to go either right or left. I am successful, I have a college degree, my parents and I paid for my college education without loans or scholarships...There are white people who have had your path and people of other races and were unsuccessful...I think your success can be contributed to you as an individual...not your race.
Of course black people listen to white musicans. BET was never meant to and does not exlude wnite people. It was started with showing movies and programming that showcased black actors, It started in 1980 just after MTV. They started playing R&B videos in 1983 again to showcase african american artists because other station would not. BET was an outlet for up and coming artists...They play jazz and Gospel as well, had a Teen Summit show that dicussed issues affecting teens and so forth. The reason why it exists is because there is nothing on tv that serves the same demographic. Just like there are channels that showcase food, nature, family, hispanics, country music and so on. If you fit the format then no one is exluded... Why do you want to take this away..its dumb...if you don't like it than don't watch...just like I don't watch the country station even if they have Cowboy Troy. BET also shows sporting events of black colleges, that you can only find on NBC once a year. BET is culture and community related. If you do jazz, gospel, hip hop, rap, reggae, r&b- then that is what they show. Do you think they shoud get rid of Telmundo or Country Music Station?
Lastly, let me exlain what UNCF is..its a scholarship for Historically Black Colleges only, not Harvard, Michigan St, or whatever. And yes there are white people that attend these schools. It was started by black people who went out to get donations so that they could provide opportunity for african americans to attend college. It was started over 60 years ago. I'm sure if you wanted to attend a historically black college, you could find a scholarship that has some basis on your skin color.
You mentioned that african americans and scholarships are based on skin color. Yes that is true, you also have to have good grades and probably some sort of community service or extra activies. Its not simply based on color. I don't understand why you would think otherwises. Second, our scholarships are not based on ethnicity because the african americans whose ancestors were slaves have no clear idea of what area of africa they are from.And once we were here, we were categorized as one individual group of people. I'd also say that we all have mixed blood also. I have native american, and irish in my family as well. Probably English also...why does this make any difference. People mentioned on this thread that you want to me known as american only not by any european ancestory so what does it matter to you if this is true for you? I know italians (the ones I know) and some people of greek decent who are proud and often tell you their heritage. There are business and institutions where I live called the Jewish Center or Italian American Center...you act as something is wrong with these because you have this opinion about things such as BET or UNCF...i happen to be of the opinion that these are all acceptable.

 

[katiev]

...Dude, Sharkboy, look what you started.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I don't quite understand what you are saying with the last statement, I guess you are saying that the circumstances were reverse in your situation. And you are kind of making a generalzation that black people are not capable or are unwilling to have the same success in life as you have. Success has a lot to do with the choices you make in life, due to circumstance and the influence of God, some people choose to go either right or left. I am successful, I have a college degree, my parents and I paid for my college education without loans or scholarships...There are white people who have had your path and people of other races and were unsuccessful...I think your success can be contributed to you as an individual...not your race.

This is exactly my point. I didn't have as many options that certain ethnic groups and Races have. Yet I still succeeded without These options. So my point is....to create options because of race or ethnicicity is a cop out. I disagree with all of them. Every scholarship should be based off of education and excellence...hell even sports. But they should not exclude others because their ethnicicty or race doesn't fit the criteria. It is a form racism to exclude because you don't fit the racial profile.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Of course black people listen to white musicans. BET was never meant to and does not exlude wnite people. It was started with showing movies and programming that showcased black actors, It started in 1980 just after MTV. They started playing R&B videos in 1983 again to showcase african american artists because other station would not. BET was an outlet for up and coming artists...They play jazz and Gospel as well, had a Teen Summit show that dicussed issues affecting teens and so forth. The reason why it exists is because there is nothing on tv that serves the same demographic. Just like there are channels that showcase food, nature, family, hispanics, country music and so on. If you fit the format then no one is exluded... BET is culture and community related. If you do jazz, gospel, hip hop, rap, reggae, r&b- then that is what they show. Do you think they shoud get rid of Telmundo or Country Music Station?
The difference is CMT doesn't call themselves the white redneck entertainment channel. I agree with the programming and offerring different outlets, but again...Tying race to the programming is in fact a form of racism as it states it is directed toward black people...not people that enjoy the programming. CMT is directed to those that enjoy the cowboy lifestyle and country music...In no way does it state white redneck entertainment.
Originally Posted by Rylan1
You mentioned that african americans and scholarships are based on skin color. Yes that is true, you also have to have good grades and probably some sort of community service or extra activies. Its not simply based on color. I don't understand why you would think otherwises. Second, our scholarships are not based on ethnicity because the african americans whose ancestors were slaves have no clear idea of what area of africa they are from.And once we were here, we were categorized as one individual group of people. There are business and institutions where I live called the Jewish Center or Italian American Center...you act as something is wrong with these because you have this opinion about things such as BET or UNCF...i happen to be of the opinion that these are all acceptable.
True, but to qualify you have to fit the racial or ethnic profile FIRST! If I wanted to go to Georgetown I could get in,but, I could not apply for the UNCF....and there is no UWCF. So based off my mixed heritage I do not fit into either category and have just had all my options narrowed dramatically. That is my point...I disagree with anything that puts race or ethnic background first as the criteria with academics and social level second.
Culturasl centers are different as they educate about heritage and bring a sense of histopry to an individual and I could become a member of any cultural center. What I can not do is apply and be accepted by any of the scholarship funds due to my mixed heritage and color of my skin. So tell....since I am white and of mixed heritage...am I not being discriminated against by scholarship institutions because of this. Any scholarship I could have applied for for college was applicable to any person regardless of race, gender, or ethnic background....Basically what I am saying is it is a form of reverse racism...I am not singling any one race or ethnic fund out...I disagree with all of them.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Making broad generalizations does not mean that people are racists.
I don't agree with that at all. making broad generalizations, ie. lumping all people of one race into one rigid category, is the very definition of racism. I would imagine most people of all races think their own race is better than other races or at least have a higher sense of pride in their own race, that's discrimination. but when that discrimination is used to build stereotypes and make broad assumptions and generalizations about entire races, it becomes racism.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I hope you are joking.... I see you are from texas and that you may have a southern mentality or you just don't know... but this is sad that you have this opinion. Regardless of where you are from read a book on the topic, a good movie/series is Roots...
Blacks were raped, beaten, killed, simply treated inhumanly. If you want I can recommend some literature. Did you know that there more slaves killed during the route from Africa to America then there were soilders killed in all the modern day American wars? Estimated over 100 million.
I'm from Texas too... In fact several of the posters here are. Frankly Ryan, your remarks have come across as being more racist than any of the "southern mentaility" handicapped folks you seem to be degrading.
Slavery is bad. Slavery is unjust. Slavery is immoral and wrong. Notice how I say that in the present tense. The same autrocities are happening today, in Africa, by Africans against Africans. That hasn't changed in 2,000 years. How about moving beyond what was abolished here 150 years ago and addressing the issue today where it is still occurring?
100 million killed on slave ships? Where to begin...
A. How many slavers were Americans? Why blame americans for autrocities committed by foreign companies and foreign govenrments?
B. For the love of all that is good, how many slaves were imported to the new world? 100 milion died? How many slaves do you think there were in America?
C. Number crunching time: You claim 100 million died in the America route. Now, for argument's sake, let's say the slave trade went into FULL SWING immidiately upon the first day of settling Jamestown in 1607 and ran full blown into 1860. That equals 253 years.
100 million/253=395,257 slaves died, per year on boats.
395,257 per year=1083 per DAY.
Exactly how many slave boats were there??? How much were they selling slaves for? Let's face it, the profit margin really sucks if you were losing 1100 captives per day!
Slaves=money. While they weren't treated humanely or even sub-humanely on slave vessels, no one in their right mind would believe captains in the 17-19th centuries would risk the perilous Atlantic crossing to sell 1-2 slaves (and 1-2 is about all a ship could successfully make it across with based on losing 1100 a day in the crossing...) And let's not forget, these numbers are based on the slave trade going into full swing the moment Europeans settled Jamestown!
I'd love to know where you got this number from. It's purely propaganda and clearly false.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Pontius
I don't agree with that at all. making broad generalizations, ie. lumping all people of one race into one rigid category, is the very definition of racism. I would imagine most people of all races think their own race is better than other races or at least have a higher sense of pride in their own race, that's discrimination. but when that discrimination is used to build stereotypes and make broad assumptions and generalizations about entire races, it becomes racism.
you are sensitive... too have pride in your ethnicity is the same as having pride in yourself. your ancestory is part of who you are. what I clarify as "white america" is main stream america. it doesn't mean its racist. I don't think my race is better than anyones or that my worth is more than anyone elses. We are all human and our lives are all of equal value, regardless of your income or race. Once you understand that God created us all in his image, you'll have more respect for others. We have differences and that is great. Making a generalzation does not make you racist...sometimes certain statements need to be taken in context.

 

[rylan1]

The # is a documented # and is an estimate... the # is based on ship and cargo logs as well as other documentations. The slave trade was over 400 years.. and you are right many foreign companies played a large role in it, african played a role, etc etc.. I am not disputing that... Trade began in 1440's and lasted through 1870 or so.. Slave trade went to Europe, the Americas,and Carribbean.. here is a book for you Eyewitness Accounts of Slavery in the West Indies by Paiewonsky.
When did I call someone handicapped? How have I degraded anyone here? Please post what I said, i am simply defending remarks made by others here. I did not start the remarks about slavery...and I am sharing infomation with you on the subject. You guys have said that the term "white america" is racist and it is not, what else have I said that offends you. People said that they are tired of thugs and drug dealers on welfare -- which this comment was targeted towards the black race--- I said that more white people are on welfare than blacks... I know there are more blacks % wise, but this statement by myself debunks your statement.- How does this make me racist? Please clarify.. I said there is a scholarship for people who have red hair, and for ones who are handicapped, there are probably ones for stamp collectors as well, What I was saying here is that there are scholarships for all types of people and facets of life.... Are you guys skimming what is being written or are you reading it with blinders... Do your research before you start trying to talk about something you don't know... Its like a "New Hobbiest" telling Journeyman1 how to start a tank... By the way you have a nice tank..
Your #'s are flawed... you make the assumption that there was only 1 ship at a time sailing. Take in account that many slaves had to walk hundreds of miles to the coast- some died here- Have you seen a slave ships manifesto or whatever you call it and how they would pack them in. Imagine spending all that time on a ship head to toe, side by side,.. there was diesease, starvation, sucides,murders... On a ship during that time you could expect to 25-35% of your cargo to be lost...Sharks often followed slave ships....

 

[ophiura]

Americans believe in freedom, equality and liberty.
Broad generalization.
Is that being racist as such?
No, making broad generalizations does not automatically mean someone is a racist, and throwing the term around so loosely, on either side, does not get us anywhere. It puts up a wall. The point is to take down that wall.
If you feel someone is, then don't do the same in return, because frankly it doesn't make you any better

. I think throwing around the "racist" word so freely is a defensive measure and people can get away without dealing with difficult issues. It escalates arguments and makes any productive discussion impossible.
So enough with the accusations of being racist one way or another. Please contribute productively.
I'll throw this out from my experience. I lived for a short while in Mobile, Alabama. I received a few comments from some local folks (white) about living in a "bad" part of town. I could not for the LIFE of me figure out what they meant. I came from Washington DC you know...I realized later that it was because a lot of black people lived there. How stunned was I when there was a white mardi gras parade and route, and a black mardi gras parade and route...a white mardi gras king and queen, and a black mardi gras king and queen. Just plain as day, normal as day. Shocked the heck out of me. Problems in the Northeast were primarily socio-economic and really in your face. I was totally stunned seeing what I had no clue still existed.
There are REAL problems with race in this country, and it exists on all sides of the argument. But just calling others racist has not, and will not, get us anywhere. It is only knowing where we are all coming from, that will help us find where to go in the future, IMO.
I have to agree with Darth on many points.

 

[pontius]

large scale slave trading between the colonies and Africa began in the early 1700s and lasted until the mid-1800s. that's 150 years, not 400 years. if you talk about slavery being a 400 year old institution in America, you are talking about the Indians who enslaved each other. you seem to be very good at skewing facts to try to fit your own agenda, then other people come along and debunk every argument and fact that you throw out. you've made several racist and degrading remarks such as "white America" and "southern mentality". even the last sentence of your last post indicate that you think you know something about these issues that the rest of us don't know.
and I don't care what anyone on this board says, "white America" is a racist term. it is NOT the same thing as "mainstream America". 'mainstream' means what's popular and en vogue, like "pop culture". "white America" implies that all white people are in cahoots or some kind of conspiracy against other people.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
The # is a documented # and is an estimate... the # is based on ship and cargo logs as well as other documentations. The slave trade was over 400 years.. ..
You said 100 million died in the slave trade from Africa to America. So my numbers are correct. If you want to try to include slave trade all over the world then obviously the numbers will be higher as slaving is still going on today.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
True, but to qualify you have to fit the racial or ethnic profile FIRST! If I wanted to go to Georgetown I could get in,but, I could not apply for the UNCF....and there is no UWCF. So based off my mixed heritage I do not fit into either category and have just had all my options narrowed dramatically. That is my point...I disagree with anything that puts race or ethnic background first as the criteria with academics and social level second.
Culturasl centers are different as they educate about heritage and bring a sense of histopry to an individual and I could become a member of any cultural center. What I can not do is apply and be accepted by any of the scholarship funds due to my mixed heritage and color of my skin. So tell....since I am white and of mixed heritage...am I not being discriminated against by scholarship institutions because of this. Any scholarship I could have applied for for college was applicable to any person regardless of race, gender, or ethnic background....Basically what I am saying is it is a form of reverse racism...I am not singling any one race or ethnic fund out...I disagree with all of them.
How is BET anything like white redneck television? You don't have to be a "redneck"-your words to enjoy country music..Ray Charles sung country music.. If you enjoy the african american lifestyle/music or however you want to term it than watch BET...what is the problem... I just think you guys are feeling like you are somehow loosing your place in society that you are some how loosing opportunities and that minorites are being unfairly given things that you feel you deserve... I'm just trying to understand why you guys feel this way that you do...Georgetown is not a historically black college and even a black peron could not get in with the UNCF...they would have to go to a school that was established for blacks that could not attend a regular university because of their skin color. All the things that we have that we are talking about were started as a way to open our own doors that were closed by (how can I say this without someone getting offended) by the people who wanted to be segregated from blacks. Why that now the doors are open do these things have to go away, when they are still needed?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
...
Your #'s are flawed... you make the assumption that there was only 1 ship at a time sailing. Take in account that many slaves had to walk hundreds of miles to the coast- some died here- Have you seen a slave ships manifesto or whatever you call it and how they would pack them in. Imagine spending all that time on a ship head to toe, side by side,.. there was diesease, starvation, sucides,murders... On a ship during that time you could expect to 25-35% of your cargo to be lost...Sharks often followed slave ships....
Sharks follow all ships. Sharks follow Cruise ships today, but I don't think that is due to slavery. Sharks go where there is trash thrown into the water. Trash attracts fish, and predators like sharks come to feed on the other fish.
25% casualty rate of 100 million.... That implies, conservatively, 400 million Africans were sold into slavery. That implies 300 million were slaves. Now, from what I have read, the entire population of Africa in 1800 was less than 100 million. Again the numbers don't add up.
I stand by my original premise: This number is pure false and pure propaganda.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Sharks follow all ships. Sharks follow Cruise ships today, but I don't think that is due to slavery. Sharks go where there is trash thrown into the water. Trash attracts fish, and predators like sharks come to feed on the other fish.
25% casualty rate of 100 million.... That implies, conservatively, 400 million Africans were sold into slavery. That implies 300 million were slaves. Now, from what I have read, the entire population of Africa in 1800 was less than 100 million. Again the numbers don't add up.
I stand by my original premise: This number is pure false and pure propaganda.
I used an estimate....By america I am reffering to the americas. There were slaves in the carribbean before the US... Trash and bodies are 2 different things. 1800 is a bad year to pull your ###'s from since this is towards the end of the trade...I'd be interested to see how Europe and the Americas population increased and how Africa's decreased... I'm not afraid of being wrong, but I also probably have more education on the subject. Do your research if you want and proove me wrong...but use some other sources besides your own calculations.There are so many variables to this because of settlers coming and going to all 3 places, native americans and so on... This is a modest casualty rate because the conditions were so horrible. I wonder what was the casulty rate for a ship during that time that contained settlers only?