What's wrong with the church today?

yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by jeanheckle
http:///forum/post/2770251
If for arguments sake God is perfect and his original plan for the earth was to be a paradise, would he allow human sin to interfere with his purpose.
I have a theory about this...
According to the bible, God is all-knowing, all-seeing, omnipotent , all that stuff. So if he knew that Adam was going to sin, then why did He create adam? And if he knew the whole world and where it was going over 3,000 years, then why did he make rules in the OT that clearly contradict with the NT? It doesn't make sense! God is perfect! He never changes! So why does he change the rules????
I think God made His plan perfectly imperfect. Think about that one for a minute... it doesn't make sense, but it's exactly what He wanted. Let me explain further...
I want to reference another thread that was started, titled "Thank You Satan." The question was asked, What do you love/hate/feel about satan? Many responses were along the lines of evil being necessary because it shows us what is good. Almost like one can't exist without the other, otherwise we have nothing to compare it to.
I think God's plan was the same way. He made rules in the OT, and people broke them and sinned and were condemned unless they made a sacrifice... all that historical stuff. Then Jesus came to die for all our sins.... he was the sacrifice for everyone. Now if God hadn't sent His son, we'd have no idea what real grace is. We'd have no idea what real love is. We'd have nothing to compare God to. God gave us the rules, let us break them, then gave His son to cleanse us. Without that, we wouldn't know who God REALLY is.
Sin had to be allowed, because without sin, we wouldn't know the true grace of God. He had a perfect plan and we ruined it, but He knew we would, which was the reason for Jesus' sacrifice. Sin was the evil and Jesus was the good. Without sin, we have no idea what "good" is.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by jeanheckle
http:///forum/post/2770251
I don't see any discussion as critiscism. As I said I am not practicing any religion. As far as holidays, even though you don't view them as pagan, how does God view them.
Well, you never know, and people are more sensitive about religion than politics. So I wanted to make myself clear.
I'd like to think that God looks at the heart. When I celebrate christmas, I don't sing songs about pagan religions, (unless you want to call santa clause a pagan god, which would be a funny satirical argument) We sing about the birth of jesus. And the message of love he brings to the table.
Remember the scripture when jesus was watching what people put in the offering plate. And said the lady that gave the mite, gave more than the rich people giving out of their excess. Because this was all the lady had.
I'd also look at Jesus's arguments with the Pharisees about the Sabbath. As a response to how God would view it.
 
srgvigil

srgvigil

Member
Originally Posted by maxalmon
http:///forum/post/2769543
I was raised Southern Baptist and attended church for many years when growing up.
In highschool, I really got into dinosaurs and ancient history, thats when little red flags started going off and all of a sudden all this physical evidence didn't jive with the way the bible described how the world was created, not going to bash anyone for how they believe, but how do you justify or ignore all the physical history and I won't even get into the monkey/man debate or how a highly trained scientist or archeologist (not me) could be a christian?
Quote of Einstein
"When you know nothing of science you believe in God, when you believe a little bit about science you dont believe, when you know all there is to about science you believe in God"
Just looking around this world we can see that it was not by chance buut by intellegent design
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2770280
I have a theory about this...
According to the bible, God is all-knowing, all-seeing, omnipotent , all that stuff. So if he knew that Adam was going to sin, then why did He create adam? And if he knew the whole world and where it was going over 3,000 years, then why did he make rules in the OT that clearly contradict with the NT? It doesn't make sense! God is perfect! He never changes! So why does he change the rules????
I think God made His plan perfectly imperfect. Think about that one for a minute... it doesn't make sense, but it's exactly what He wanted. Let me explain further...
I want to reference another thread that was started, titled "Thank You Satan." The question was asked, What do you love/hate/feel about satan? Many responses were along the lines of evil being necessary because it shows us what is good. Almost like one can't exist without the other, otherwise we have nothing to compare it to.
I think God's plan was the same way. He made rules in the OT, and people broke them and sinned and were condemned unless they made a sacrifice... all that historical stuff. Then Jesus came to die for all our sins.... he was the sacrifice for everyone. Now if God hadn't sent His son, we'd have no idea what real grace is. We'd have no idea what real love is. We'd have nothing to compare God to. God gave us the rules, let us break them, then gave His son to cleanse us. Without that, we wouldn't know who God REALLY is.
Sin had to be allowed, because without sin, we wouldn't know the true grace of God. He had a perfect plan and we ruined it, but He knew we would, which was the reason for Jesus' sacrifice. Sin was the evil and Jesus was the good. Without sin, we have no idea what "good" is.
The logic, I like is the logic of a choice. He didn't want slaves forced to worship him, but people who chose to. (not a good argument for those who don't accept the premise of Christianity to begin with. But I like it.)
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
For all the funny folks that make a mockery of things they can never comprehend......pray to your friggin sneaker in the final seconds after your last breath. Whatever you do...don't have that fleeting thought of...what if??
It'll be too late.

What does it hurt to believe? Are ya scared someone will laugh at you for thinking there may be a master plan? No-one says you have to go to a Church. I don't. But I'm also not ruling anything out. I prefer to not think of all this as an accident.
 
jennythebugg

jennythebugg

Active Member
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2770350
What does it hurt to believe? Are ya scared someone will laugh at you for thinking there may be a master plan? No-one says you have to go to a Church. I don't. But I'm also not ruling anything out. I prefer to not think of all this as an accident.

i feel the same way about it , to live at least a fraction of the way a christian is SUPPOSED to live (some don't ,but many do) hmmm...
no cheating spouses
no murdering
no lying
no stealing
etc...
i dont really see a problem with that , if only more people chose to live their lives like that the world would be a better place
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2770371
i feel the same way about it , to live at least a fraction of the way a christian is SUPPOSED to live (some don't ,but many do) hmmm...
no cheating spouses
no murdering
no lying
no stealing
etc...
i dont really see a problem with that , if only more people chose to live their lives like that the world would be a better place

The Golden Rule is a great thing. Basically, Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Is it just me or do most, if not all religions, preach that philosophy?
When I have ever talked to Aetheists (sp), I allways ask them, "So, if there is no purpose, you are nothing more than pond scum that learned how to talk???"
 
gliderjohn

gliderjohn

Member
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2770392
The Golden Rule is a great thing. Basically, Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Is it just me or do most, if not all religions, preach that philosophy?
Most of the world's major religions promote some version of the Golden Rule. IMO, way too many people have distorted it to go something like this - Do unto others, then run!
 
sickboy

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by jennythebugg
http:///forum/post/2770371
i feel the same way about it , to live at least a fraction of the way a christian is SUPPOSED to live (some don't ,but many do) hmmm...
no cheating spouses
no murdering
no lying
no stealing
etc...
i dont really see a problem with that , if only more people chose to live their lives like that the world would be a better place
Yeah, the Bible (any of them really) is a GREAT doctrine on social behavior. That is until people start to run away with interpretations. You get Jihad in Islam and Crusade in Christianity, both of which originated as a "battle within" and then has led to bloodshed.
 
jmick

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2770350
For all the funny folks that make a mockery of things they can never comprehend......pray to your friggin sneaker in the final seconds after your last breath. Whatever you do...don't have that fleeting thought of...what if??
It'll be too late.

What does it hurt to believe? Are ya scared someone will laugh at you for thinking there may be a master plan? No-one says you have to go to a Church. I don't. But I'm also not ruling anything out. I prefer to not think of all this as an accident.
There is nothing wrong with believing in a higher power and no one should ever be mocked for that. If it fills in the voids and enriches your life then that is a wonderful thing. Also, if you choose to follow the belief then you should walk the walk and talk the talk. It would seem many christians do not and it's really nothing more then a social scene or a place to be.
On a side note, if you are only a christian because of the what if/gonna cover your arse then you might want to re-examine your faith and commitment.
I was raised a catholic, albiet not a very good one. Came to my own conclusion that the god in the bible was more a man then a god in that it possed the same traits and emotions and was ungodly IMO. Something of that magnitude would wouldn't do the things it was said to have done in the old test and probably wouldn't care if you worshipped it or not...seems rather petty and insecure to me.
 
jmick

jmick

Active Member
Does anyone else think that Jesus is the biggest fraud in the history of mankind? Lets look at the facts shall we? There is not a single drawing, painting, sculpture or coin that bears his likeness. Also, not a single contempory mention of Jesus and everything written was after his time. Here are a few of the historians who lived at the time Jesus was said to have walked the earth and it's well known the Roman were prolific record keepers.
Aulus Perseus,
Columella,
Dio Chrysostom,
Justus of Tiberius,
Lucanus,
Lucius Florus,
Petronius,
Phaedrus,
Philo Judaeus,
Phlegon,
Pliny the Elder,
Plutarch,
Pomponius Mela,
Rufus Cartius,
Quintillian,
Quintus Curtius,
Seneca,
Silius Italicus,
Statius Caelicius,
Theon of Smyrna,
Valerius Flaccus, and
Valerius Maximus.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by KingSmith
http:///forum/post/2769636
You see there is the great flaw in humanity and religion, trying to take something beyond our understanding and comprehension and putting it into our terms.
"To Quote God" what is that a joke
God #1 in the misquoted department
Actually I was quoting Scripture.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2769746
Please tell me when god has ever said anything. All holy books were written by man. The Jewish Tanakh/Old Testement was written by people who talked to god (we stick these people in looney bins now), the New Testement was written well after Jesus died and was passed down orally (not the most reliable source), and the Koran is the same thing as the Tanakh/Old Testement- written by someone who spoke to god. Seems to me this is a bunch of people talking, not god.
Sorry, that is a major pet peeve of mine. But, I am quasi religious. I was raised catholic, quit going, but ended up going back when it was time to get married. I believe religion does a lot of good in some people's lives, like when an alcoholic uses religion to quit drinking, but is nothing but a social parade for others. It is a helpful tool for dealing with the fact that we will all die, and gives a meaning to life so that we should keep bettering ourselves and not give in to despair.
Also, I don't know the exact passage, but the (christian) bible has a phrase to the effect: All who believe will be saved. So, this pretty much negates the belief that you must go to church ever sunday to reach the after life. (My parents hate it when I bring that up). Anyway, I've probably said too much already, but I really can't help myself when the religious discussion starts.
The Books of the NT were all written by eyewitnesses to the resurrection. None of the Books of the NT were passed down orally. The NT was completed by 88-92 AD.
 
jmick

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2771388
The Books of the NT were all written by eyewitnesses to the resurrection. None of the Books of the NT were passed down orally. The NT was completed by 88-92 AD.
Let me ask you a question about the resurrection. Why is it that there are ZERO non biblical accounts of the resurrection? If there were indeed witnesses then why were there no other accounts?
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2771397
Let me ask you a question about the resurrection. Why is it that there are ZERO non biblical accounts of the resurrection? If there were indeed witnesses then why were there no other accounts?
Dude, there were over 900 written accounts of jesus death and resurrection... read back through this thread, I said it early on. Archaeologists are still finding written accounts in the middle east.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2769670
There are a lot of things in literature that solidify the findings of the existence of Jesus. You know "Alexander the Great"? His story is in history books across the U.S. Everyone has heard of Alexander the Great. But what you don't know is that Alexander the Great's story was found on a single scroll somewhere in the middle-east... and yet we consider it as fact, such to the point that we'll publish it in history books and include it in every child's curricular system in school. But what you don't know is that there were over 900 written accounts found recording Jesus' death on the cross and resurrection... and they are still being found to this day. Something has to be said about that.
There you go. We didn't add these accounts to our school history curriculum because of the separation between church and state.
 
jmick

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by YearOfTheNick
http:///forum/post/2771405
Dude, there were over 900 written accounts of jesus death and resurrection... read back through this thread, I said it early on. Archaeologists are still finding written accounts in the middle east.
Contempory accounts my friend. And if you can find them please put the link up I'd be rather curious.
 
yearofthenick

yearofthenick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2771411
Contempory accounts my friend. And if you can find them please put the link up I'd be rather curious.
What do you mean by "contemporary accounts?" Wouldn't that take a 2100 year old person?

Seriously though, what are you looking for?
 
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