ADEE's 125
- Thread starter adee
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funkysean5
Member
Beautiful tank!!!
I love your ray!
adee
Member
Originally Posted by redsea
http:///forum/post/2963429
it looks very happy!
Originally Posted by funkysean5
http:///forum/post/2963483
Beautiful tank!!!
I love your ray!
thank you both...
sad news, upon closer inspection of my photos i found what looked like ich on my butterfly, i went back in our bedroom to take a closer look and sure enough he has it. I immediately took him out and after acclimation put him in our QT tank beneath the main tank. Tomorrow we plan to get some stuff for it but i cant help but freak out... this will be our first experience with treating ich and i would have preferred it didnt happen to my favorite fish. Please pray with me my $50 fish wont die overnight and that none of my other "Resident" fish get it either... it sounds like an unreasonable fear but i am afraid...
If nothing else, this will teach me proper QT the hard way
http:///forum/post/2963429
it looks very happy!
Originally Posted by funkysean5
http:///forum/post/2963483
Beautiful tank!!!
thank you both...
sad news, upon closer inspection of my photos i found what looked like ich on my butterfly, i went back in our bedroom to take a closer look and sure enough he has it. I immediately took him out and after acclimation put him in our QT tank beneath the main tank. Tomorrow we plan to get some stuff for it but i cant help but freak out... this will be our first experience with treating ich and i would have preferred it didnt happen to my favorite fish. Please pray with me my $50 fish wont die overnight and that none of my other "Resident" fish get it either... it sounds like an unreasonable fear but i am afraid...
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by ADEE
http:///forum/post/2963526
thank you both...
sad news, upon closer inspection of my photos i found what looked like ich on my butterfly, i went back in our bedroom to take a closer look and sure enough he has it. I immediately took him out and after acclimation put him in our QT tank beneath the main tank. Tomorrow we plan to get some stuff for it but i cant help but freak out... this will be our first experience with treating ich and i would have preferred it didnt happen to my favorite fish. Please pray with me my $50 fish wont die overnight and that none of my other "Resident" fish get it either... it sounds like an unreasonable fear but i am afraid...
If nothing else, this will teach me proper QT the hard way
That's unfortunate news... but I hope that this teaches something besides QT. Honestly, stocking a tank in 10 days does not work. Unfortunately I think this is the start of bigger problems for you.
On the other hand, understand that ich is far from a death sentence and if your butterfly dies overnight then it will NOT be from the ich. I've successfully treated ich every time I've had an infected fish for the last 5 years. Sometimes I don't even treat if it doesn't seem to be a severe case. I'd test your parameters daily and do small water changes as often as possible. Please make sure that you do not use any type of copper based med in the display or QT because that would be lethal to your ray. Good luck.
http:///forum/post/2963526
thank you both...
sad news, upon closer inspection of my photos i found what looked like ich on my butterfly, i went back in our bedroom to take a closer look and sure enough he has it. I immediately took him out and after acclimation put him in our QT tank beneath the main tank. Tomorrow we plan to get some stuff for it but i cant help but freak out... this will be our first experience with treating ich and i would have preferred it didnt happen to my favorite fish. Please pray with me my $50 fish wont die overnight and that none of my other "Resident" fish get it either... it sounds like an unreasonable fear but i am afraid...
That's unfortunate news... but I hope that this teaches something besides QT. Honestly, stocking a tank in 10 days does not work. Unfortunately I think this is the start of bigger problems for you.
On the other hand, understand that ich is far from a death sentence and if your butterfly dies overnight then it will NOT be from the ich. I've successfully treated ich every time I've had an infected fish for the last 5 years. Sometimes I don't even treat if it doesn't seem to be a severe case. I'd test your parameters daily and do small water changes as often as possible. Please make sure that you do not use any type of copper based med in the display or QT because that would be lethal to your ray. Good luck.
adee
Member
thank you crimzy... its not bad at all, there are little tiny flecks of white on its fins, maybe four of them total but i wanted to pull him out anyway.. none of the other fish are showing signs thankfully. Thank you for the info on the copper based chemicals, we do not have intentions of using any treatment in the main tank. If you dont treat it what do you do? do you leave the fish in the main tank? (now im all paranoid everything else is going to get it) do you just leave the fish in QT for awhile? What do YOU treat with??
Lets hope this is the worst of our worries...
Lets hope this is the worst of our worries...
crimzy
Active Member
Well the unfortunate reality is that if you see the ich on any one fish, you can assume that they are all carrying the parasite. The only fish of mine that ever really shows a spot or two is my blue hippo, and when this happens it's usually a sign of some new stressor in the tank... new fish, changed lights, different feeding schedule. I usually do a water change, feed the fish plenty of food and soak the food in garlic or vitamins. Usually in a day or two the spots have gone. But in your case, if the stressor does not lessen... such as if your water quality actually gets slightly worse and not better, the ich may increase.
It's much easier for a fish to fight off ich if it has been in the tank for a long time. Newer fish are always more delicate. Since ich is present in your display, now you have some choices to make. The only true way to kill ich is to use copper (which isn't an option for you), or hypo. But you'd have to hypo ALL of your fish to adequately kill the parasite. The other option is to treat the symptoms as they present themselves. There are medications that will help the fish fight off the symptoms. I have used Chem Marin's Stop Parasite successfully when I've had bad cases of ich. It hasn't bothered any of my other fish. It increases the natural slime coat of the fish so the ich cannot cling to the scales. The ich will fall off the fish but it will not be eliminated from the system.
If I were you, I'd test your water and try to relax a bit. Tomorrow check to see how things are going. By that time, you will have a plan of attack. I can also tell you that overreacting to ich can kill your fish quicker than ich will.
It's much easier for a fish to fight off ich if it has been in the tank for a long time. Newer fish are always more delicate. Since ich is present in your display, now you have some choices to make. The only true way to kill ich is to use copper (which isn't an option for you), or hypo. But you'd have to hypo ALL of your fish to adequately kill the parasite. The other option is to treat the symptoms as they present themselves. There are medications that will help the fish fight off the symptoms. I have used Chem Marin's Stop Parasite successfully when I've had bad cases of ich. It hasn't bothered any of my other fish. It increases the natural slime coat of the fish so the ich cannot cling to the scales. The ich will fall off the fish but it will not be eliminated from the system.
If I were you, I'd test your water and try to relax a bit. Tomorrow check to see how things are going. By that time, you will have a plan of attack. I can also tell you that overreacting to ich can kill your fish quicker than ich will.
adee
Member
our water parameters are perfect... i will take the water tomorrow and have it done at the LFS just as a back up. what kind of vitamins can i add to their food (im talking brand/amount/exc) i will pick it up tomorrow? what about the garlic, is it made specifically for fish? should i put my poor miserable (me being drama queen) butterfly back in with her best buddy? (her and the tang swim around like best friends together) since the entire system needs to be treated now? can i use Chem Marin's Stop Parasite in the main tank safely with the ray? im sure its due to the stress.. weve only had the butterfly a couple days now and when we got it there was nothing on it.. there is nothing visible on our other fish either.
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by ADEE
http:///forum/post/2963583
our water parameters are perfect... i will take the water tomorrow and have it done at the LFS just as a back up. what kind of vitamins can i add to their food (im talking brand/amount/exc) i will pick it up tomorrow? what about the garlic, is it made specifically for fish? should i put my poor miserable (me being drama queen) butterfly back in with her best buddy? (her and the tang swim around like best friends together) since the entire system needs to be treated now? can i use Chem Marin's Stop Parasite in the main tank safely with the ray? im sure its due to the stress.. weve only had the butterfly a couple days now and when we got it there was nothing on it.. there is nothing visible on our other fish either.
I wouldn't move the butterfly again. Stress is the main cause of the ich becoming a problem. Moving the fish once is further stress but may be a neccesary evil. Moving it again would surely make the problem infinitely worse on the fish. As far as vitamins, I use a product called Zoecon or Vitality by Seachem. You can use fresh garlic but I prefer Garlic Extreme, which your LFS should carry. Stop Parasite should be ok with your ray, mine has been through 3 treatments of Stop Parasite with no problems.
http:///forum/post/2963583
our water parameters are perfect... i will take the water tomorrow and have it done at the LFS just as a back up. what kind of vitamins can i add to their food (im talking brand/amount/exc) i will pick it up tomorrow? what about the garlic, is it made specifically for fish? should i put my poor miserable (me being drama queen) butterfly back in with her best buddy? (her and the tang swim around like best friends together) since the entire system needs to be treated now? can i use Chem Marin's Stop Parasite in the main tank safely with the ray? im sure its due to the stress.. weve only had the butterfly a couple days now and when we got it there was nothing on it.. there is nothing visible on our other fish either.
I wouldn't move the butterfly again. Stress is the main cause of the ich becoming a problem. Moving the fish once is further stress but may be a neccesary evil. Moving it again would surely make the problem infinitely worse on the fish. As far as vitamins, I use a product called Zoecon or Vitality by Seachem. You can use fresh garlic but I prefer Garlic Extreme, which your LFS should carry. Stop Parasite should be ok with your ray, mine has been through 3 treatments of Stop Parasite with no problems.
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by ADEE
http:///forum/post/2963595
Thank you ((writes down names)) when would it be safe do you think to move my butterfly back into the DT?
It depends on how you're going to treat the butterfly. If you're going to do hypo then you'd need to do it for 4 to 6 weeks prior to putting the fish back... but that wouldn't make sense unless you completely eliminated ich from your display by doing hypo on all your fish and letting your tank run empty for all that time. If you treat with Stop Parasite then it's (I believe) a treatment for a week or two. Or you could just see how the fish reacts from here... maybe add a cleaner shrimp to the QT (but then you wouldn't be able to do hypo b/c it would kill the shrimp). There are options.
http:///forum/post/2963595
Thank you ((writes down names)) when would it be safe do you think to move my butterfly back into the DT?
It depends on how you're going to treat the butterfly. If you're going to do hypo then you'd need to do it for 4 to 6 weeks prior to putting the fish back... but that wouldn't make sense unless you completely eliminated ich from your display by doing hypo on all your fish and letting your tank run empty for all that time. If you treat with Stop Parasite then it's (I believe) a treatment for a week or two. Or you could just see how the fish reacts from here... maybe add a cleaner shrimp to the QT (but then you wouldn't be able to do hypo b/c it would kill the shrimp). There are options.
adee
Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2963614
Well if you permanently want to kill the parasite then you don't want to use Stop Parasite. It treats the symptoms well but won't kill the parasite. How big is your QT?
its only a 10gal.. i got it mostly for my small tank and because it fit under my main tank. certainly not big enough to house multiple fish for long...
http:///forum/post/2963614
Well if you permanently want to kill the parasite then you don't want to use Stop Parasite. It treats the symptoms well but won't kill the parasite. How big is your QT?
its only a 10gal.. i got it mostly for my small tank and because it fit under my main tank. certainly not big enough to house multiple fish for long...
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by ADEE
http:///forum/post/2963617
its only a 10gal.. i got it mostly for my small tank and because it fit under my main tank. certainly not big enough to house multiple fish for long...
That's too small to adequately treat all your fish. You should remove all the liverock and put it into the QT (if it will fit), with a powerhead for circulation. Then you will want to do hypo on the display. You can put PVC pieces or base rock in the display for hiding places. I believe you want to add enough freshwater everyday to lower the salinity about .01-.02 per day until it gets down to 1.010. Then you will want to keep the salinity at that level for 4 to 6 weeks and the ich should be dead. Then you slowly raise it at about the same rate. Then you can put the liverock back in. Be aware that if you have a deep sand bed then you can have some significant die off in your sand bed and will want to do water changes during and after hypo to keep your levels stable.
There are lots of people here who know more about hypo than I do because I don't use it. Be aware, though that I have never personally seen, nor heard of anyone doing hypo on a tank with a ray in it. I have no idea how it could affect the ray.
http:///forum/post/2963617
its only a 10gal.. i got it mostly for my small tank and because it fit under my main tank. certainly not big enough to house multiple fish for long...
That's too small to adequately treat all your fish. You should remove all the liverock and put it into the QT (if it will fit), with a powerhead for circulation. Then you will want to do hypo on the display. You can put PVC pieces or base rock in the display for hiding places. I believe you want to add enough freshwater everyday to lower the salinity about .01-.02 per day until it gets down to 1.010. Then you will want to keep the salinity at that level for 4 to 6 weeks and the ich should be dead. Then you slowly raise it at about the same rate. Then you can put the liverock back in. Be aware that if you have a deep sand bed then you can have some significant die off in your sand bed and will want to do water changes during and after hypo to keep your levels stable.
There are lots of people here who know more about hypo than I do because I don't use it. Be aware, though that I have never personally seen, nor heard of anyone doing hypo on a tank with a ray in it. I have no idea how it could affect the ray.
adee
Member
im not sure i would be willing to risk it for the sake of my ray.. i would rather just treat the ich and see what happens long term (hoping the flare up of ich was due to stress). Taking all the live rock out would be impossible unless I housed it in tupperware bins with a powerhead or two... our sand bed is approx 2" deep... again, im not sure im willing to risk my ray. Couldnt I just treat with what you suggested previously? were talking two to four teeny tiny flecks of white on the butterflies fin, thats it. If it wasnt for the fact I was zoomed all the way in on the photo i wouldve never seen it at all.
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by ADEE
http:///forum/post/2963630
im not sure i would be willing to risk it for the sake of my ray.. i would rather just treat the ich and see what happens long term (hoping the flare up of ich was due to stress). Taking all the live rock out would be impossible unless I housed it in tupperware bins with a powerhead or two... our sand bed is approx 2" deep... again, im not sure im willing to risk my ray. Couldnt I just treat with what you suggested previously? were talking two to four teeny tiny flecks of white on the butterflies fin, thats it. If it wasnt for the fact I was zoomed all the way in on the photo i wouldve never seen it at all.
Sure, Stop Parasite is a relatively simple treatment and it has a pretty good success rate of helping your fish. But when you use it, make sure you have some PH buffer because it does tend to lower your PH. It won't kill the ich but by the end of the treatment, (or within a few days after), your butterfly will most likely not show any signs of visible ich.
http:///forum/post/2963630
im not sure i would be willing to risk it for the sake of my ray.. i would rather just treat the ich and see what happens long term (hoping the flare up of ich was due to stress). Taking all the live rock out would be impossible unless I housed it in tupperware bins with a powerhead or two... our sand bed is approx 2" deep... again, im not sure im willing to risk my ray. Couldnt I just treat with what you suggested previously? were talking two to four teeny tiny flecks of white on the butterflies fin, thats it. If it wasnt for the fact I was zoomed all the way in on the photo i wouldve never seen it at all.
Sure, Stop Parasite is a relatively simple treatment and it has a pretty good success rate of helping your fish. But when you use it, make sure you have some PH buffer because it does tend to lower your PH. It won't kill the ich but by the end of the treatment, (or within a few days after), your butterfly will most likely not show any signs of visible ich.
crypt keeper
Active Member
Awww ADEE. I stressed so hard to you im Pm to QT everything. I know its hard to do but this is why we do it. You should be fine since you caught it in time and most fish if happy can live with the disease.
crimzy
Active Member
ADEE, I have to tell you the truth here... and I feel bad because you seem to be a very nice person who cares about her fish. But you've made pretty much every newbie mistake possible in this tank setup. And as of right now you are not setup to have long term success at all.
First, you have species that will outgrow your tank (ie. your ray). Second, you completely stocked your tank in just 10 days. Third, you have a QT but were too impatient to use it. Fourth, even if you did QT everything, it is grossly undersized for the types of fish that you are keeping and they would probably not make it through the QT period. Finally, you are keeping species together that are incompatible (ray and anemone). I don't even know about your filtration, (not sure I want to know).
It's clear that you are excited about your tank and that is all well and good. For right now, you'll have to deal with what you have and make the best of it. You will definitely have some losses but please learn from them. Exuberance is great but, in this hobby, impatience generally leads to failure.
Not trying to be too harsh, but there are too many problems here for me to be overly optimistic.
First, you have species that will outgrow your tank (ie. your ray). Second, you completely stocked your tank in just 10 days. Third, you have a QT but were too impatient to use it. Fourth, even if you did QT everything, it is grossly undersized for the types of fish that you are keeping and they would probably not make it through the QT period. Finally, you are keeping species together that are incompatible (ray and anemone). I don't even know about your filtration, (not sure I want to know).
It's clear that you are excited about your tank and that is all well and good. For right now, you'll have to deal with what you have and make the best of it. You will definitely have some losses but please learn from them. Exuberance is great but, in this hobby, impatience generally leads to failure.
Not trying to be too harsh, but there are too many problems here for me to be overly optimistic.
M
mr.reef
Guest
ok on the ray i am getting a 125 and wanting to know if they were safe with corals and hermits?? i have this thing wher i go up like every two year next will be a 400 gallon so i did not....?
adee
Member
thank you for your input, i do understand your criticism. it pains me to think we will not have long term success. The only reason we even have the anemone is because of the butterfly, we were told it would be good for it to eat it, in my other thread i even state it will be removed from the tank once the butterfly had its fill. Im glad however to hear thats the only problem with compatibility. Learning things the hard way is just that... learning from the mistake is going to be what matters long term and sheer hope that we dont suffer any losses as we do care very much for the fish we have, this will be a lesson learned and for our upgrade to the 300+ in a year or so one we wont repeat.
thank you for your honesty and help.