And this is why Fox Business shouldn't be covering Science stories.

mohawkninja

mohawkninja

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darthtang aw

darthtang aw

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I always thought that was because of water's high specific heat value. Since lakes have so much water, it takes a very long time for them to heat up in the summer. Because rivers are shallower and have less volume, they heat faster.
Yes to a degree. But if you look at streams in The winter time versus the lake you see less ice formation. The water movement does slow down the freezing but the heat generated by the movement plays a part as well. Fast moving ocean currents are warmer than the other areas of the ocean.
 
2quills

2quills

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Sounds like kinetic energy.
Smaller bodies of water generally will freeze solid quicker than larger bodies. Unless the smaller body happens to be moving while the larger one is not.
 
phixer

phixer

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Darth's right, I remember the impending ice age during the late 70s.

Its colder than a witches ***** here.
 
reefraff

reefraff

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/396925/and-this-is-why-fox-business-shouldnt-be-covering-science-stories/60#post_3536806
Yes to a degree. But if you look at streams in The winter time versus the lake you see less ice formation. The water movement does slow down the freezing but the heat generated by the movement plays a part as well. Fast moving ocean currents are warmer than the other areas of the ocean.
Just saw a practical demonstration of this a couple months ago. The pump that circulates the water through the heater in my hot tub went out. The guy had to order a pump so he disconnected the heater and it's pump and set one of the Jet pumps to run slow speed. When he came out to change out the circulation pump and drain the tub for winterizing he pulled the cover off and the water was steaming (cold out). Water temp was at 82 with no heater. I asked if the pumps transferred that much heat and he said they transferred virtually no heat, otherwise the normally hot water would kill the pump motors. He said the insulated tubs hold in all the heat generated by the moving water.
 
2quills

2quills

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I always thought that green house gases trapped heat from the sun. Not reflected it back out into space. :%%:
 
bang guy

bang guy

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/396925/and-this-is-why-fox-business-shouldnt-be-covering-science-stories/60#post_3536850
I always thought that green house gases trapped heat from the sun. Not reflected it back out into space.


It does both, well, more like trap & radiate vs reflect.

Reefraff is ignoring half of the energy coming from the Sun. If you only consider Infrared radiation emanating from the Sun he is correct - the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere would have a negligible effect on the mean global surface temperature.

But ignoring all of that energy is ignoring reality.
 
2quills

2quills

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From what I understand about Venus is that it has the thickest atmosphere comprised of green house gases. Those gases do let light from the sun penetrate to the surface but the heat is trapped and can't escape back out.
 
bang guy

bang guy

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/396925/and-this-is-why-fox-business-shouldnt-be-covering-science-stories/60#post_3536853
From what I understand about Venus is that it has the thickest atmosphere comprised of green house gases. Those gases do let light from the sun penetrate to the surface but the heat is trapped and can't escape back out.
That's it exactly.

It lets some of the Suns energy in but once that energy strikes the surface some of it becomes heat and the greenhouse blanket keeps it in.
 
reefraff

reefraff

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Greenhouse gases absorb the infrared radiation that would normally be absorbed by the planet or in the case of that re radiated by the planet released out into space. CO2 molecules do the same thing the planet does, absorbs and re emits. In a sense it does "reflect" the heat. That radiated from the surface is absorbed in the lower atmosphere and most of that is radiated back down towards the surface. The incoming from the sun is mostly absorbed in the upper atmosphere and most of that is radiated back out into space. That's why I don't by CO2 as the driver of warming. If the infrared isn't reaching the earth's surface the surface wont heat as much and in turn wont release as much infrared back out.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member

Venus has a layer of sulfuric acid clouds that I assume holds in all the heat. It also has a lot more dense atmosphere.
Yes the atmosphere is dense because it's primarily co2. Sulfuric clouds form as a result of greenhouse gases mixing with water vapor. They do reflect some radiation but the entire atmosphere as a whole catches and traps more heat than escapes or reflects. 10% of the suns energy makes it to the surface but less than that ever escapes the atmosphere. Or at least that's what the scientists have me convinced of.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/396925/and-this-is-why-fox-business-shouldnt-be-covering-science-stories/60#post_3536856
Greenhouse gases absorb the infrared radiation that would normally be absorbed by the planet or in the case of that re radiated by the planet released out into space. CO2 molecules do the same thing the planet does, absorbs and re emits. In a sense it does "reflect" the heat. That radiated from the surface is absorbed in the lower atmosphere and most of that is radiated back down towards the surface. The incoming from the sun is mostly absorbed in the upper atmosphere and most of that is radiated back out into space. That's why I don't by CO2 as the driver of warming. If the infrared isn't reaching the earth's surface the surface wont heat as much and in turn wont release as much infrared back out.
There you go again, ignoring all of the Suns energy except for infrared.
 
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