do farms have a right to shoot stray animals that have been dumped by their land?

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
.........I want to know the statistics/times of livestock loss, due to stray animals. ........
For starters, dogs kill more livestock in the USA then wolves (as of 1995 when I did my seminar). Feral animals are a huge issue.

 

[jennythebugg]

tell me exactly what 'smarts' are dogs born with NATURALLY that cats dont have besides the ability to bark?

you obviously have not spent time around too many cats that werent just spoiled rotten brats, there are just as many spoiled rotten good for nothing dogs , i never said cats were better than dogs - you were the one that said dogs were better than cats ,and my cat is not a genius he is a normal cat that we trained just like you train a dog. people can train a kitten the same way you train a puppy it doesnt take any longer and cats can understand commands too they are intelligent, trainable ,loving,loyal and obedient the same as dogs . also i want to know more about these ' manners that dogs supposedly have that cats dont this intrigued me i dont think ive ever seen an animal with manners cat or dog

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
For starters, dogs kill more livestock in the USA then wolves (as of 1995 when I did my seminar). Feral animals are a huge issue.
to continue..that's should be right.. what's the % of wolfs vs. dogs roaming around the country?
If we had a bigger Wolf population in the US , i think the results would be different.. just to prove that, we don't see any one complaining about wolfs here..
If feral animals are a huge issue, then something needs to be done!! Shooting them is not going to work..cause if it did, then we wouldn't be here discussing this.. this problem should've been solved from all the stray dog shootings of the years.. Unless someone is just breeding dogs Irresponsably just so that they get dumped in YOUR property ..
"FARMERS GET TOGHETER AND ACT"
Here's a start: why don't they make a study/article or some sort of solution plan ..To get rid of this problem? being such a Huge problem, i would think that they would be all over that by now.. Unless of course Shooting them, is "THE solution"..it doesn't seem very effective thus why we still have this "issue" since 1995..
Also it wouldn't be a bad idea to set up more dog shelters in the country side , so that farmers don't have that big of a problem anymore ..All of this is has to do with agricultural politics..
That sounds like a big hassle hu?? but if its a real problem..then you got to hassle (do something)if you wanna keep in business. Or you can take the easy road like usually, and just blow the dogs brains out..either way, just make sure you do it precisely and quick.. none of that rookie crap.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by jennythebugg
tell me exactly what 'smarts' are dogs born with NATURALLY that cats dont have besides the ability to bark?

you obviously have not spent time around too many cats that werent just spoiled rotten brats, there are just as many spoiled rotten good for nothing dogs , i never said cats were better than dogs - you were the one that said dogs were better than cats ,and my cat is not a genius he is a normal cat that we trained just like you train a dog. people can train a kitten the same way you train a puppy it doesnt take any longer and cats can understand commands too they are intelligent, trainable ,loving,loyal and obedient the same as dogs . also i want to know more about these ' manners that dogs supposedly have that cats dont this intrigued me i dont think ive ever seen an animal with manners cat or dog

i'm guessing you never owned dogs either, cause if you can't see the difference.. then i don't know what to tell you. dogs don't need much teaching..they're super quick learners..Cats, you need an specialized trainer for it to even come close to a any skilled dog. Cats can't even hold a candle to dogs abilities..
If they are so obedient/smart, where's the Cat whisperer show?? Where's the Cat park?
ONLY time i seen cats do any tricks is on "Planet's funniest animals videos" and it was because they were being silly not trained.. Cats may have silly behaviors naturally, such as running like a freak along the walls for no reason.
I would like to see a cat do tricks, over and over, not just once in a full moon.

 

[jennythebugg]

http://www.zefrank.com/annie/navigation.html?
yes some of these are just ' americas funniest video 'tricks but...see the kitty fetch. and notice its not a cat scratching blindly at the door on the last one its the cat KNOWING that the doorknob is what makes the door open
the stupid pet tricks are set on a loop...ill find more if you want this is one of mannnnny that were listed and yes i have owned dogs 2 of them and they were good dogs but as they passed on i decided to stick with cats because i liked them better
and no they dont need a specialized trainer just someone that is willing to teach them like people teach dogs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lzM1...elated&search=
this one is of someone actually training his cat
heres one with clicker training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBn5mo7qj-8

 

[aztec reef]

Let me hit this...
They where ok tricks(more curiosity than tricks though) Cats have tons of curiosity hence the saying:Curiosity killed the cat .. but nothing holds a candle to some of this..
peep this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA-ri_c-8
Can your cat do this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jKPiu8Ym0k
or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkbdSOZuass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAo0MJbsC_g
Can your cat stroll like this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1wl6sRZfPk
Can your cat obey like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWsWjQy-50
Untill you show me a Cat that dances like the one in your avatar, then i'll be impressed..

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
......
If feral animals are a huge issue, then something needs to be done!! Shooting them is not going to work..cause if it did, then we wouldn't be here discussing this.. this problem should've been solved from all the stray dog shootings of the years.. Unless someone is just breeding dogs Irresponsably just so that they get dumped in YOUR property ...
Aztec, you've gone off on a tangent. Something "is" being done. That's what the original poster is complaining about.... She is asking if there is another way.
Aztec, clearly you have no concept of the millions of pets that have been dumped in this country. I live 45 minutes from downtown Dallas in a rural community. When I first moved out here I had to shoot and kill one of several wild dogs in a pack that were going after my horse.
Do some research and you'll quickly see that people irresponsibly dumping their pets is an issue.

 

[1journeyman]

The cat vs. dog intelligence thing is silly. Both have been genetically imbred for thousands of years to produce the little mutants we call pets. I've had both. Dogs are pack animals that have been bred to accept people as pack leader. Cats are solo hunters that have been bred to accept people. The survival rate of a dumped cat, however, is higher than a dumped dog so if survivability is a factor cats are the smarter species.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
The cat vs. dog intelligence thing is silly. Both have been genetically imbred for thousands of years to produce the little mutants we call pets. I've had both. Dogs are pack animals that have been bred to accept people as pack leader. Cats are solo hunters that have been bred to accept people. The survival rate of a dumped cat, however, is higher than a dumped dog so if survivability is a factor cats are the smarter species.
So you're saying that Cats and Dogs have the same Intelligence?
"Cats are solo hunters that have been bred to accept people."
that's probably why they're stuck up! that would mean that they really aren't meant to like owners..Now with Dogs they Naturally accept pack leaders..they didn't have to be bred to accept people like cats Did..
How come cats haven't been bred to accept pack leaders? they both have been bred for 1000th's of years. i would think that cats would be more apreciative towards the owners..You cannot compare cat's personality with dogs.. Dogs are loyal, if your feeling blue they feel your pain. if your having a great day then they'll have a great day too.
Cats could careless what your mood is.
"The vivalrate of a dumped cat, however, is higher than a dumped dog so if survivability is a factor cats are the smarter species."
Not really, if we go into the facts i'll bet that there's a higher % of stray cats then stray dogs..Thus why you have the higher amount of survival rate of cats, plus its easier to see a stray Dog then a stray cat in a field.
maybe cause they're smaller and flexible and have agility.(but that only helps on tree climing) Also i think peeps had more encounters with stray Dogs than stray cats..peeps shoot dogs mostly. Why? maybe cause the Dog can do more damage than a Cat, also a Dog is easier to spot than a kitty..

 

[1journeyman]

Aztec, now you're giving human emotions like "being stuck up" to animals... Also, never confuse "loyalty" with intelligence. Clearly you've never owned a cat, btw. My cat growls whenever someone comes to the house, lays in my suitcase and bites me to keep me from packing whenever I'm about to go on a trip, and definitely knows my moods. My previous cat would meow a specific way whenever she saw a scorpion in the house to get me to come kill it (happens a lot out here).
Cat's aren't bred to be pack animals because they aren't pack animals (the lion is the only species of cat that I know of that is, And domestic cats do not come from lions)
Let's keep this on topic. If you want to discuss dogs versus cat start a thread. Just be sure you do a little research first so you don't get shredded. The issue at hand is the large problem of irresponsible pet owners illegally disposing of their pets.

 

[brandon7491]

how was i being a hard--- aztec? makes no sense to me but what ever. kinda sad the some people think animals deserve more rights than people (a little bit crazy) yes they have the right to kill them. we cannot mix up animals with people

 

[seasalt101]

i got baxter my cat when i 1st had cancer my cat is continually by my side as much as jenny i just threw up 5 minutes ago my cat was there to comfort me so was jenny my cat is more loyal than any dog the difference a dog would of ate the puke then try to lick me sorry for being so graffic and staying off topic a bit longer...tobin

 

[jmj6239]

"Give it away, ignore it,eat it.take it somewhere,make a call. Why can't you drive a mile and returned the favor,( of dropping off) maybe the next family would have more decency and take it somewhere or take care of it..wHAT i DON'T GET IS: how can you get so much exitement out of killing a helpless animal? Now if the Dog happends to be caring a gun, then go ahead and shoot first or he would take you out first..Or you could play the russian roulette..that's what i called fair fight.."
As far as my family goes or anyone else I know for that matter enjoy killing a domesticated animal that has been abandoned, but I'm not going to loose sleep over it either.
As far as ferral cats MN and WI have laws giving permission to shoot stray and ferral cats, due to their hunting and killing of song birds, as long as they are not collared, they can be considered ferral. Possibly it has something to due with being a non native spieces.

 

[seasalt101]

now when i lived in the mountains dogs that were dropped off was not as often as a cat and kittens or a pregnant mama cat we never shot any of them we took in a lot of cats over the 20 years there my parents still have 2 of the wild cats and they moved out of cali. in dec. 98 we had a very good dog that ran many coyotes and wild dogs off 1 time me and my dad watched our dog take on and run off 8 coyote at once but we had lost chickens to wild dogs never cats our horses were never attacked and the goats i can't recall as we also had mountain lion, bear, and bobcat out there too...tobin

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Aztec, you've gone off on a tangent. Something "is" being done. That's what the original poster is complaining about.... She is asking if there is another way.
Aztec, clearly you have no concept of the millions of pets that have been dumped in this country. I live 45 minutes from downtown Dallas in a rural community. When I first moved out here I had to shoot and kill one of several wild dogs in a pack that were going after my horse.
Do some research and you'll quickly see that people irresponsibly dumping their pets is an issue.
I'm still clowning..
Journey, Apperently what's being done isn't enuff, the original poster heard a tale from someone.. It wasn't first hand experience to ghola5.. So how can we know how accurate the story is? there is many ways to make changes,the real question is: Would we do it? what changes have been done latelly to execute the issue? are we still doing the same thing since 95? or has some regulations/laws been changed? I'm sure they still on the same page.
So out of the millions of pets being dumped in the US. you only experience it 1 time maybe twice..was your horse hurt? or has anything been killed at your property? "ever" or did you assume they might've killed something..
"I live 45 minutes from downtown Dallas in a rural community. When I first moved out here I had to shoot and kill one of several wild dogs in a pack that were going after my horse" that sounds kind of reasonable to shoot a pack of wild dogs that are bothering your horse. No problem there.. But when you have idiots that shoot animals just for fun or for target practice, without a cause, makes no sense.. Wild dogs don't come from the woods..they come from the neighborhoods and the streets. looking for food and shelter. When they spend a certain amount of days roaming around your property or the neighborhood without finding shelter/food, they will for sure turn "Wild". and definitely eat on livestock.
were the dogs already at your property when you first got there or they just showed up one day like a pack of wolfs.looking for horse meat.. did shooting them take care of the problem? or do you still have that problem?
there's no question of it being an issue, it has been for at least a decade .right?
Now if your getting pack of Dogs at your property all the time , I would think that a small dog center would work great close to your house. don't you?
so you killed one dog , ok. where is the rest?
How do you know that the rest ain't coming back? we're talking about a pack of dogs, not just one..

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Aztec, now you're giving human emotions like "being stuck up" to animals... Also, never confuse "loyalty" with intelligence. Clearly you've never owned a cat, btw. My cat growls whenever someone comes to the house, lays in my suitcase and bites me to keep me from packing whenever I'm about to go on a trip, and definitely knows my moods. My previous cat would meow a specific way whenever she saw a scorpion in the house to get me to come kill it (happens a lot out here).
Cat's aren't bred to be pack animals because they aren't pack animals (the lion is the only species of cat that I know of that is, And domestic cats do not come from lions)
Let's keep this on topic. If you want to discuss dogs versus cat start a thread. Just be sure you do a little research first so you don't get shredded. The issue at hand is the large problem of irresponsible pet owners illegally disposing of their pets.
oh, really, would your cat attack someone that's endangering you or your family/ animals? how's that for loyalty and intelligence? How loud can a cat really growl? i'm trying to keep it on topic but your points are just weak! Nothing that you mentioned is impossible for a Dog to do. the point here: is that you cannot compare a Cat with a Dog...there's too many variables..I ain't worried about being shredded, i thrive on it!! loyalty or Intelligence. Dogs have it made more than cats.. i don't know what we're discussing here. are they different or the same? when it comes to loyalty and Intelligence...loud barks are worthless if the bite ain't vicious..

 

[1journeyman]

Aztec, you're still missing the point. Farmers and ranchers routinely shoot any "feral" animal. That is the solution. It's just about 100% effective... unless the farmer/rancher is a bad shot.
I didn't say I had one experience, I just said I killed one dog. My neighbors had similar experiences. I did lose two rabbits to the same pack of dogs (saw them at the rabbit cage, where they had torn open the bottom of cage and were eating my rabbits. They ran off before I could shoot them that time.). When they came back for my horse I shot one of them. Various neighbors also shot them occasionally. As with most predators, as people move in and develop an area their numbers diminish. We don't get them anymore because the moved further into the country, died from disease, were shot, etc.
You're also wrong when you say "Wild dogs don't come from the woods..". Yes, in fact they do. That's what the words "wild" and "feral" imply.
Again Aztec, you need to do some research on the subject.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
oh, really, would your cat attack someone that's endangering you or your family/ animals? ....
Yup... my cat attacks anyone who comes into the house she doesn't know very well....

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
... i'm trying to keep it on topic but your points are just weak! ..
Aztec, I haven't made any "points". I very clearly stated that comparing intelligence between dogs and cats is silly. I further explained that they are so imbred they are mutant subspecies of their original ancestors.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Aztec, you're still missing the point. Farmers and ranchers routinely shoot any "feral" animal. That is the solution. It's just about 100% effective... unless the farmer/rancher is a bad shot.
You're also wrong when you say "Wild dogs don't come from the woods..". Yes, in fact they do. That's what the words "wild" and "feral" imply.
Again Aztec, you need to do some research on the subject.
Journey, you might wanna take a second look at this whole thread first. I though we were talking about dogs that get "droped off" by people.
What? your contradicting your self or someone else. first of all, we are talking about dogs that get droped off by humans. Now we're taking about dogs coming from the woods? pick one. I know the research advice, but your sounding like a broken record now.