Do you believe in evolution?

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
So what do you believe that God created during the six days of creation?

If, like me, it is not taken literally, that means it was not "6 days" of creation. But something, in this case a time frame, that people could relate too, much like a mustard seed. People find it hard to understand concepts they can not relate to in some way. Eons of time, say a billion years, are difficult to fathom while a day is quite easy to comprehend. It is a way of explaining in human terms the awesome power He possesses. In short, it is a way to relate his power to the common man who knows how much of a field can be plowed, or fish caught, in a day.
JMO. I don't want to speak for anyone else.

 

[clown boy]

So are you all trying to say that God made things evolve over Billions of years? That's not exactly what I would call "creation"...

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
So what do you believe that God created during the six days of creation?
Good question. Let me explain how I see it.
The creation story is told from a different perspective than the rest of Genesis. It's as if someone from outside the universe is explaining the creation of the universe. For the first two days, the earth didn't exist. So, why would you assume it's being told in "Earth days"? We know from relativity that time is not constant, but is rather controlled by both gravity and velocity (near the speed of light, time slows way down; under a much higher gravity like the sun, time slows down). If you instead follow the days using the cosmic clock, the bible days match up very well with what scientists believe happened in the creation of the universe.
I consider myself a Creationist, but really believe in a mix between evolution and creation. I believe we evolved from single-celled organisms, but not through random genetic mutations. I believe God coded our DNA right into the first organisms, and evolution was instead very much controlled. It was not random, but planned. This would explain the lack of intermediate species...at the right time, evolution took place very quickly. This also would explain the Cambrian Explosion, which evolution seems to have no answer for.
I also believe that even though God could create the universe in six earth days, he wouldn't do it that way; that would be too easy. By using billions of years, it gives us a choice to believe whether or not God exists. If we could easily prove creation, we would then have proof of God's existence, which then destroys our gift of free will.

 

[ophiura]

Why not? I am taking months to make a quilt, and I would call it "a creation."
Just that I get demoralized, distracted, etc...and He can keep it up

Yet another awesome thing. For me, as mentioned, THAT - a self perpetuating process, for ever and ever since the earth began and until it ends - is what is so glorious.

 

[ophiura]

Please, please please do not make the mistake of believing the fossil record is ever remotely complete. I am wary of people basing too much on this.

 

[kjr_trig]

This thread got rather interesting...Darkness, you asked at the start "Do you believe in evolution?" The following is the scientific definition of evolution.
"In biology, evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population from generation to generation. These traits are the expression of genes that are copied and passed on to offspring during reproduction. Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences (genetic variation) between organisms. New traits can also come from transfer of genes between populations, as in migration, or between species, in horizontal gene transfer. Evolution occurs when these heritable differences become more common or rare in a population, either non-randomly through natural selection or randomly through genetic drift."
I'm sorry, but how can anyone not believe in that?

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by ophiura
If, like me, it is not taken literally, that means it was not "6 days" of creation. But something, in this case a time frame, that people could relate too, much like a mustard seed. People find it hard to understand concepts they can not relate to in some way. Eons of time, say a billion years, are difficult to fathom while a day is quite easy to comprehend. It is a way of explaining in human terms the awesome power He possesses. In short, it is a way to relate his power to the common man who knows how much of a field can be plowed, or fish caught, in a day.
JMO. I don't want to speak for anyone else.

idk, if he said 6 days i believe it was six days . if the universe was a billion years old the first man on the moon would have sank right to his head in moon dust . theres pletty of scientific data that proves the earth and its surrounding are only about 7000 years old which if you count the years of the generations in the bible you come up with about 7000 years

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
I'm sorry, but how can anyone not believe in that?
I don't believe in the common thought that random mutations caused evolution. The statistical odds of species from different phyla evolving similar complex organs by chance are 20^130 to one. The human and octopus ancestors would have split long before the eye was evolved. Yet, they both developed very similar genes to create similar organs. The odds are too great for this to be by chance. It had to have been preprogrammed into the genes at creation.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Darknes
I don't believe in the common thought that random mutations caused evolution. The statistical odds of species from different phyla evolving similar complex organs by chance are 20^130 to one. The human and octopus ancestors would have split long before the eye was evolved. Yet, they both developed very similar genes to create similar organs. The odds are too great for this to be by chance. It had to have been preprogrammed into the genes at creation.
read this and tell me its preprogrammed.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...060901_mussels

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
read this and tell me its preprogrammed.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib...060901_mussels
Thats an example of microevolution.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by Darknes
Thats an example of microevolution.
OK OK, I admit I did not read every thread, I did not realize it had turned into a macroevolution question. Proving Macroevolution is a challenge, even a Neo-Darwinian (is that what they call themselves?) will admit thats a tough one. I know there are studies trying to link modern birds to their dinosaur ancesters, however nothing conclusive yet that I know of.
Looks like you agree, Micro is not really debateable

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
OK OK, I admit I did not read every thread, I did not realize it had turned into a macroevolution question. Proving Macroevolution is a challenge, even a Neo-Darwinian (is that what they call themselves?) will admit thats a tough one. I know there are studies trying to link modern birds to their dinosaur ancesters, however nothing conclusive yet that I know of.
Looks like you agree, Micro is not really debateable
Yup... very early on it was clarrified that Micro Evolution, or Adaptation, was not in debate.

 

[wackyvolitan]

Do I believe in evolution? Umm... no. IMO, evolution is just silly. The earth is only about 7,000 years old, and there is plenty of evidence to prove it. God made the earth in 6 days, and the Bible literally meant 6 days. But there is no real evidence that the earth is billions and trillions or however many years old.

 

[clown boy]

Did you guys know that Dr. Kent Hovind has offered a $250,000 Reward for anyone who can prove Evolution at all? It has been standing for 17 years, and no one has qualified for it yet! If you are so sure of yourselves... eeeeasy money...

http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=67

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
idk, if he said 6 days i believe it was six days . if the universe was a billion years old the first man on the moon would have sank right to his head in moon dust . theres pletty of scientific data that proves the earth and its surrounding are only about 7000 years old which if you count the years of the generations in the bible you come up with about 7000 years
I'd like to see some of this evidence and please don't quote the bible.

 

[clown boy]

I wanna see you take up Hovind's offer, Jmick.

 

[jerthunter]

Wow, alot has happened since I went to bed last night. I spent my entire day listening to EVIL people who are conspiring to disprove god by observing what they see and hypothesising explainations. Evil evil people. Trying to figure out how things work. One guy spent an hour talking about this horrible LIE called Geology. Have you heard of it? Aparently, people take observations about how layers of rock form. Crazy stuff. Another guy talked a bunch about this other lie called Biology. More like LIEology.. Am I right guys? He made up some crazy lie about similarities between certain organsims. Can you believe the NERVE. trying to say that there are very stricking similarities between chloroplasts and bluegreen algae. I pulled out my one test book, the only testbook ever needed for anything, and looked for the chapter on Biology but I couldn't find it. Can you believe these guys, its an international conspiracy, all making up 'facts'. But that isn't the half of it! I had a lab and the instructions called for 1 liter. So I raised my hand and KINDLY explained that there is no such thing as liters, sure there are microliters and but how on earth can you get to a liter from a microliter. Then the teacher told me, "well then measure 1,000,000 microliters and you will have a Liter." Can you believe that? Things build upon one another? You HAVE to be joking! So I turned to my one and only textbook, looked for the chapter on measurements but it wasn't there. Such evil evil people...

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Wow, alot has happened since I went to bed last night. I spent my entire day listening to EVIL people who are conspiring to disprove god by observing what they see and hypothesising explainations. Evil evil people. Trying to figure out how things work. One guy spent an hour talking about this horrible LIE called Geology. Have you heard of it? Aparently, people take observations about how layers of rock form. Crazy stuff. Another guy talked a bunch about this other lie called Biology. More like LIEology.. Am I right guys? He made up some crazy lie about similarities between certain organsims. Can you believe the NERVE. trying to say that there are very stricking similarities between chloroplasts and bluegreen algae. I pulled out my one test book, the only testbook ever needed for anything, and looked for the chapter on Biology but I couldn't find it. Can you believe these guys, its an international conspiracy, all making up 'facts'. But that isn't the half of it! I had a lab and the instructions called for 1 liter. So I raised my hand and KINDLY explained that there is no such thing as liters, sure there are microliters and but how on earth can you get to a liter from a microliter. Then the teacher told me, "well then measure 1,000,000 microliters and you will have a Liter." Can you believe that? Things build upon one another? You HAVE to be joking! So I turned to my one and only textbook, looked for the chapter on measurements but it wasn't there. Such evil evil people...
I must have missed a post or two... Can you kindly point me to the post # that said education was "evil"?

I know several of us who already have degrees in science (some even Masters and Doctorates) who are participating in this thread.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I must have missed a post or two... Can you kindly point me to the post # that said education was "evil"?

It was merely my poor attempt at satire.
It doesn't seem like anyone was interested in any of the information I offered so I thought I would try something else.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
It was merely my poor attempt at satyr.
It doesn't seem like anyone was interested in any of the information I offered so I thought I would try something else.
I for one read each of your posts. I think I responded to most of them.