Is a value added tax coming our way?

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3263417
Previous to the invasion Iraq had tenative contacts with the official Al Qaeda and rendered medical aid to one of their big wigs hurt in Afghanistan. I am talking post invasion when all the terrorists turned their attention to Iraq and set up Al Qeada in Iraq. Google it. Very well known group of terrorist.
OK. They setup camp inside the Iraq borders. Like I said, Sadaam gave them assistance and refuge. You think that if the US didn't hang around for 8 years trying to pacify the ruling parties that already had major interests and control, that Al-Qaeda could come in and take over. There's no way the Sunni's, Kurd's, or the majority Shiite faction would let that happen. Al-Qaeda has no interest in taking over countries. Their main objective is terrorism. Cut the knees off of anyone that disagrees with their beliefs. Al-Qaeda's ideology is to restore Islam, and the belief of a global Jihad. They want to 'convert' anyone and everyone to follow those beliefs. The only thing they'd want to take over in Iraq is anything that did not conform to what they perceive as 'non-Muslim influences'. They don't have the 'muscle' to completely takeover a country.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3263434
OK. They setup camp inside the Iraq borders. Like I said, Sadaam gave them assistance and refuge. You think that if the US didn't hang around for 8 years trying to pacify the ruling parties that already had major interests and control, that Al-Qaeda could come in and take over. There's no way the Sunni's, Kurd's, or the majority Shiite faction would let that happen. Al-Qaeda has no interest in taking over countries. Their main objective is terrorism. Cut the knees off of anyone that disagrees with their beliefs. Al-Qaeda's ideology is to restore Islam, and the belief of a global Jihad. They want to 'convert' anyone and everyone to follow those beliefs. The only thing they'd want to take over in Iraq is anything that did not conform to what they perceive as 'non-Muslim influences'. They don't have the 'muscle' to completely takeover a country.
What Al Qeada wants is a country in such a state of termoil they can operate from there. If you had the factions fighting for control of Iraq you would have had a perfect situation for them to operate from.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3262091
I don't understand your argument. What has being either a 'wetback' (yes that's the degratory term you wanted to use) or a person who's been living here a couple years, have to do with the cops being able to distinguish whose legal or not? I'm sorry, but unless you have some sixth sense that tells you that a person who looks Hispanic is one of these 'people who snuck across the border without proper documentation', there's no way you can easily distinguish between the two.
I had the foundation on my house done last year, and every one of the workers was Hispanic. I didn't ask the foreman about any of them, and could care less where he hired them from, as long as they did the job they were supposed to do. On one of the days, I get a knock on my door. The foreman was standing there with a purse in his hand that looked familiar. He said that when he was dropping off his workers the previous day, he saw one of them get out of the truck with this bag in his hand. When he approached the guy to ask him where it came from, he dropped the bag and started running. A cop happened to be in the area, and stopped the guy. Found out he was an illegal with fake papers. The purse was my wife's that she'd left in her car, and she didn't lock it before she came into the house the day before. When he described the one who took it, I told him that I remember talking to him on one of their breaks the same day he apparently took the purse. Seemed like a nice guy to me, and he even spoke English quite well.
I've lived in San Antonio since 1980. Several years ago, I worked for a company that had manufacturing plants down in Mexico, and I used to go down there all the time to do IT work. If any of the people I met and worked with down in Acuna, Juarez, Piedras Negras, Puebla, or Monterrey were to pass me on the street in San Antonio today, I couldn't tell you if they were here legally or not. So how the cops in Arizona are going to tell the difference is a mystery to me.
Well, my issues have been assuaged, a valid drivers license is sufficient proof of citizenship.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3263810
Well, my issues have been assuaged, a valid drivers license is sufficient proof of citizenship.
Sure it is. However, would you have a problem with a cop in Arizona stopping you for no apparent reason and ask you for that driver's license to verify you're not an illegal just because you're Hispanic? That's the debate. Someone who has nothing to hide probably doesn't see it as an issue. But the fact of the matter is, it's still racial profiling. Whose next? All these Indians and Pakastani's that come here on the visas to work in this country, taking some very lucrative jobs away from qualified American workers? How about Welfare recipients? Gotta keep track on those bums who live off our taxes.
Arizona has the right idea. The illegals will still keep coming to the US through their state, but they'll just keep moving on once they get there. So instead of trying to live and find jobs in Arizona, they'll just go to Cali, New Mexico, Texas, or somewhere up North.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3263377
Didn't we just have this discussion that there was no proof Saddam ever tried to execute Bush Sr., or was that Bin Laden? Either case, I still think this was a weak excuse to start the war with Iraq, and even more of a lame excuse to continue this 'war' for another 8 years. They got rid of Sadaam in the first week. Exactly what 'terrorists' have remained in Iraq since Sadaam's ouster? We've been sitting in that country playing 'middle man/peacekeeper/negotiator' for two or three religious factions that can't figure out who should run that country now. Is it the Sunni's we're fighting, Kurds, Shiite's, all three? Does anyone honestly think that once one of these factions does win their 'King Of The Mountain' game, that they'll all play nice with one another once we do finally pull out of Iraq? Whether we leave tomorrow, or would've pulled out 5 years ago, the end result would be the same. One group would have control, and the others would be scheming to find a way to de-throne them.
The discussion was whether bin Laden...but anyway.
What is wrong with the shites, sunnis, and kurds schemeing to gain control of their own country. It is no different than Republicans or democrats in this country. Except now, the shites, sunnis, and kurds can do it from an election/political front. Yeah, this is much worse..........
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3263824
Sure it is. However, would you have a problem with a cop in Arizona stopping you for no apparent reason and ask you for that driver's license to verify you're not an illegal just because you're Hispanic? That's the debate. Someone who has nothing to hide probably doesn't see it as an issue. But the fact of the matter is, it's still racial profiling. Whose next? All these Indians and Pakastani's that come here on the visas to work in this country, taking some very lucrative jobs away from qualified American workers? How about Welfare recipients? Gotta keep track on those bums who live off our taxes.
Arizona has the right idea. The illegals will still keep coming to the US through their state, but they'll just keep moving on once they get there. So instead of trying to live and find jobs in Arizona, they'll just go to Cali, New Mexico, Texas, or somewhere up North.

The law states the officer has to have a reason to stop the individual. Then at that point of stoppage if the individual might be ilegally they can legally ask. Stop adding stuff that is not true. The officer has to have a reason. Besides, by law, and officer can ask you for Identification (DL) any time you are on the public roadways/street/ or sidewalk........
How is it racial profiling if you ask to see identification of everyone with a FOREIGN accent..........Or that can not speak english? Explain how it is racial. The only ones I see making it racial are the ones against it. As those against it were quick to label it to mexicans.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3263824
Sure it is. However, would you have a problem with a cop in Arizona stopping you for no apparent reason and ask you for that driver's license to verify you're not an illegal just because you're Hispanic? That's the debate. Someone who has nothing to hide probably doesn't see it as an issue. But the fact of the matter is, it's still racial profiling. Whose next? All these Indians and Pakastani's that come here on the visas to work in this country, taking some very lucrative jobs away from qualified American workers? How about Welfare recipients? Gotta keep track on those bums who live off our taxes.
Arizona has the right idea. The illegals will still keep coming to the US through their state, but they'll just keep moving on once they get there. So instead of trying to live and find jobs in Arizona, they'll just go to Cali, New Mexico, Texas, or somewhere up North.
Anytime anyone is engaged in potentially illegal activities they have to show identity. Why is Illegal entry into the country any different?
But seriously, due to proximity this will effect Hispanics, but the law doesn't just apply to them. So don't twist it to claim racism...
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3263830
Anytime anyone is engaged in potentially illegal activities they have to show identity. Why is Illegal entry into the country any different?
But seriously, due to proximity this will effect Hispanics, but the law doesn't just apply to them. So don't twist it to claim racism...
OK, here's one for you. You live in Tuscon, and you decide to take a long evening jog in the downtown area. Since you don't want to be burdened with carrying anything while you're running, you leave your wallet at home. Next thing you know, a cop stops you and says, "Identification please." You tell him you're jogging, and you left your driver's license at home. Guess what, if he doesn't believe you, you get a trip to the police station. With this new law, he has a rigjt to do this. Does he need just cause to ask you? The law says he does, but the cop can just claim he saw a Hispanic running down the street, and got a report that a car was broken into in the area you were running. Before this law was implemented, the cop could still suspect you, but probably wouldn't stop and ask you just because you're some Hispanic running down the street.
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3263830
Anytime anyone is engaged in potentially illegal activities they have to show identity. Why is Illegal entry into the country any different?
But seriously, due to proximity this will effect Hispanics, but the law doesn't just apply to them. So don't twist it to claim racism...
Since I don't want to be labeled a lefty................again, could you please do some research on the sponsor and writer of this law and get back to us on what you think of the law and what the motivation was for it.
Fishtaco
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3263841
Since I don't want to be labeled a lefty................again, could you please do some research on the sponsor and writer of this law and get back to us on what you think of the law and what the motivation was for it.
Fishtaco
This just in, the feds send out a package to legal immigrants when they first immigrate telling them to carry their green card at all times...
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3263841
Since I don't want to be labeled a lefty................again, could you please do some research on the sponsor and writer of this law and get back to us on what you think of the law and what the motivation was for it.
Fishtaco
Dude, I have friends who own properties and stuff along the border. They literally have weekly and monthly breakins. It is kind of funny what a lot of these people are doing is sticking a bunch of catholic symbols and stuff in all their windows. Because the people won't break into a catholic's house...
My more mexican friends (like the ones who still have family in mexico or first gen americans) won't even go into Juarez, or border towns down here...
If you're looking for some reason behind it, why not just use google? You can find a wealth of information and news stories regarding issues involved with illegal immigration.
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3263844
This just in, the feds send out a package to legal immigrants when they first immigrate telling them to carry their green card at all times...
So you are not willing to even look into it? I'm not trying to set you up here and I want you to have all the information behind this law. Sorry I wasted my time I guess.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3263839
OK, here's one for you. You live in Tuscon, and you decide to take a long evening jog in the downtown area. Since you don't want to be burdened with carrying anything while you're running, you leave your wallet at home. Next thing you know, a cop stops you and says, "Identification please." You tell him you're jogging, and you left your driver's license at home. Guess what, if he doesn't believe you, you get a trip to the police station. With this new law, he has a rigjt to do this. Does he need just cause to ask you? The law says he does, but the cop can just claim he saw a Hispanic running down the street, and got a report that a car was broken into in the area you were running. Before this law was implemented, the cop could still suspect you, but probably wouldn't stop and ask you just because you're some Hispanic running down the street.
Law states you must carry identification at all times. Even before this bill was passed. If you're running without identification, you risk taking a trip down to the station for identification anyway.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3263848
So you are not willing to even look into it? I'm not trying to set you up here and I want you to have all the information behind this law. Sorry I wasted my time I guess.
What bother's me, is that you assume I haven't before I reached my conclusions...
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3263853
Law states you must carry identification at all times. Even before this bill was passed. If you're running without identification, you risk taking a trip down to the station for identification anyway.
Yeah, I was taken into custody for that in Cali. I was riding my mountain bike on some trails along the beach and saw some friends at a park drinking beers so I stopped to chat with them. The police walked-up and started writing tickets for open container and asked me for I.D. because I was sitting there, but drinking from my water bottle. Not having anything but a house key and 4 people to vouch for who I was, I was taken into custody without being arrested, grilled about who I really was and what I was hiding, rode around in the back of a cop car for a 1/2 hour and eventually released in front of my apartment. Wait Darth, but I was riding a 800.00 dollar mountain bike which I worked my ass off to buy, what happened to that? The cops left it sitting there and told my friends that they could take it or not.
Just a little something to think about. For myself, I did not like my encounter with the police state one bit and unless every cop in Arizona is honest there is no way this law will not be abused.
Fishtaco
 

fishtaco

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3263854
What bother's me, is that you assume I haven't before I reached my conclusions...
Fair enough, can you tell me the "background" on the sponsor and writer of the law and tell me it does not bother you at all.
Fishtaco
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3263853
Law states you must carry identification at all times. Even before this bill was passed. If you're running without identification, you risk taking a trip down to the station for identification anyway.
I disagree with that statement. I mountain bike all the time without my ID, and I've never worried about a cop pulling me over to ask for it. So you're saying I can't even go take a leisurely walk after dinner with my wife in my own neighborhood without and ID on me? I have one of those community mailboxes that's a couple hundred yards from my house. Guess I can't walk down there and get my mail without carrying my wallet.

The difference in Arizona, is even if I did go out on my own with my ID, I wouldn't have to worry one bit about being stopped and questioned about my legal status, because I'm a middle-aged white boy. Same may or may not be true with stdreb.
Just read Ohio and Texas are looking at passing the same laws. I can see Texas doing it. Like I said, we'll get all the Arizona illegal rejects now. But Ohio? Last time I was up there, I couldn't even find a decent place to get a breakfast taco. Maybe they want to keep them illegal Canadians out of their state.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fishtaco
http:///forum/post/3263858
Fair enough, can you tell me the "background" on the sponsor and writer of the law and tell me it does not bother you at all.
Fishtaco
You mean the cop who got shot by gang bangers, has the highest award given to law enforcement in AZ? I think it is the same sheriff's department where they have that sheriff that makes the criminals wear pink, live in tents and all that... Yeah I'm fine with that. I'm even fine with his "racist" stuff like trying to ban actual racist groups from college campuses... Dude our president hung around with the likes of Bill Ayers. You want me to get bothered about the crap the left is trying to gin up about this guy...
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3263861
The difference in Arizona, is even if I did go out on my own with my ID, I wouldn't have to worry one bit about being stopped and questioned about my legal status, because I'm a middle-aged white boy. Same may or may not be true with stdreb.
I'm not middle aged or white (I'm as white as obama is)... Nor do I think the cop who would hastle me while making out at the makeout point where hassling me because I'm brown... And that was down the road in my neighborhood.
 
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