unions

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2877020
If we are talking 3rd world countries here you will get my heart felt sorrows.
If we are talking Capitalism ,ill ask you this.Does Capitalism only apply to the rich and the business owners or all Americans?
I'm confused what kind of a question is this? What is it leading to?
If you are going to argue that the bailouts aren't capitalism, you won't get any disputes from me...
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
As far as choosing between one of the national domestics, coors is fine. It isn't the best or my choice. But it isn't like drinking bud ice or keystones, or colt 45's
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2877458
As far as choosing between one of the national domestics, coors is fine. It isn't the best or my choice. But it isn't like drinking bud ice or keystones, or colt 45's
I'm just poking a stick at ya.
Kinda.
 
rotarymagic

rotarymagic

Active Member
Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2877271
lol. oh ok, thats nasty beer anyway.
I'll stick to my miller lite

If i want a change i'll go with magic hat.
Oh and who's the one talking smack about drink choice and you drink that piss?

yeah... what a real man.. hahahahhahahaha
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Real beer? You guys want real beer, huh? Here you go (plus a bit of my collection)


Want to put some hair on your chest? Mississippi Mud Black and Gold.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2877077
I'm confused what kind of a question is this? What is it leading to?
If you are going to argue that the bailouts aren't capitalism, you won't get any disputes from me...
Let me rephrase the question.Do you believe its ok for a business to make as much profit as fairly possible,yet denied the work force to do the same?
Also keep this in mind .Unions are born or adopted two ways.#1 They are voted into by the employees or #2 The business,manufacture....... sign a contract with the union to provide them a work force.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2877719
Let me rephrase the question.Do you believe its ok for a business to make as much profit as fairly possible,yet denied the work force to do the same?
Also keep this in mind .Unions are born or adopted two ways.#1 They are voted into by the employees or #2 The business,manufacture....... sign a contract with the union to provide them a work force.
I think a more accurate question is do I believe in collusion and am I for artificial monopolies and trusts. Do I have problems with cartels?
And please I don't think anyone believes unions are in for their members best interests anymore (as a whole).
 
rotarymagic

rotarymagic

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2877718
Real beer? You guys want real beer, huh? Here you go (plus a bit of my collection)


Want to put some hair on your chest? Mississippi Mud Black and Gold.
Oh yeah I'll have me some black and tan.. guiness stout and bass ale haha.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2877957
I think a more accurate question is do I believe in collusion and am I for artificial monopolies and trusts. Do I have problems with cartels?
And please I don't think anyone believes unions are in for their members best interests anymore (as a whole).
I think you question is less than accurate and distorted,And"please"there is apox.15.7 million US citizens that would argue that without their union representation they would most likely be impoverished.So please spare me the dramatics.It is apparently clear though,that you have been fortunate enough to find a career and/or a job that pays you fairly .I do not know what you do but i know this to be certain.If i didn't have Union Representation in my field i would end up making minimum wage sooner rather than later .Say what you will about skilled labor but i will say this, my 4 year apprenticeship through hands on and classroom is equal to a 4 year college degree and deserves equal value in pay scale compared to average salary of said graduates.
stdreb,last year i made aprox.65k ,i would hardly call that living High on the Hog,but i believe Ive been paid fairly.Would it make you happier if i made on 30k or much less if i where paid minimum wage and was forced to depend on the thing you as i so despise? "Government Handouts" I would rather work for a living.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2878158
I think you question is less than accurate and distorted,And"please"there is apox.15.7 million US citizens that would argue that without their union representation they would most likely be impoverished. So please spare me the dramatics.It is apparently clear though,that you have been fortunate enough to find a career and/or a job that pays you fairly .I do not know what you do but i know this to be certain.If i didn't have Union Representation in my field i would end up making minimum wage .Say what you will about skilled labor but i will say this, my 4 year apprenticeship through hands on and classroom is equal to a 4 year college degree and deserves equal value in pay scale compared to average salary of said graduates.
stdreb,last year i made aprox.65k ,i would hardly call that living High on the Hog,but i believe Ive been paid fairly.Would it make you happier if i made on 30k or much less if i where paid minimum wage and was forced to depend on the thing you as i so despise? "Government Handouts" I would rather work for a living.
The simple fact is (speaking pure economics here not about you personally), if without market manipulation you wouldn't be making 65k then you aren't worth 65k.
I'm just pointing out that what unions do is no different then a cartel, ologopoly or in some states a monopoly. They are typically legally protected. And NOT an action of the free market (in todays market).
And me the dramatics? In areas where relocation to detroit is not an option, union free automakers from Japan seem to be paying their workers quiet well. After all Ghettelfinger (quite stupidly, and I doubt accurately), tried to make a point non-union autoworkers working for the Japs made more money than his union members. Some poverty...
And no my question is not distorted. Or inaccurate.
The definition of a monopoly is a commodity controlled by one party.
In this case labor is a commodity. If you are working in a shop where when you get hired you are required to join the union. That is labor controlled by one party.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2878166
The simple fact is (speaking pure economics here not about you personally), if without market manipulation you wouldn't be making 65k then you aren't worth 65k.Without market manipulation who is to say what is the value of any given service or product?
I'm just pointing out that what unions do is no different then a cartel, ologopoly or in some states a monopoly. They are typically legally protected. And NOT an action of the free market (in todays market).I would disagree,in my field and in my state we have both union and non companies doing the same jobs,however when its a big job" subdivision of a few hundred homes ,sky scrapers,nuke,coal, steel facilities....." my union is able to provide large numbers of skilled ,qualified,safety oriented carpenters
And me the dramatics? In areas where relocation to detroit is not an option, union free automakers from Japan seem to be paying their workers quiet well. After all Ghettelfinger (quite stupidly, and I doubt accurately), tried to make a point non-union autoworkers working for the Japs made more money than his union members. Some poverty...
Unfortunately for me the Japanese aren't here building so i guess i'm out of luck?
And no my question is not distorted. Or inaccurate.
The definition of a monopoly is a commodity controlled by one party.My union doesn't fit that description

In this case labor is a commodity.I guess,if you view people as commodities If you are working in a shop where when you get hired you are required to join the union. Or look for a job elsewhere That is labor controlled by one party.That would be the party that does the work,if management doesn't like it they are free to form a pencil pusher union.... lol
.
 
nwdyr

nwdyr

Active Member
I know this is not going to make me any friends in the union...BUT. AS a ex teamster and with my best friend being a very high ranking member of the teamster union........ Unions are NOT looking out for the "little' guy. They are nothing short of a bunch of old "mob guys" although most of them are gone and have been replaced with suites , taking what they want with the threat of force. Not the old "force" but new stuff. When I was in the union we were taught how to scam management and how to do the least amount of work for the most money. I think most people in any union are over paid for the service they are rendering. Veni , I am not saying this applies to you! I don't know what you do please don't think I am talking about you. i am just talking about my experience with union's. "The attitude of "they cant fire me" has ruined the work force , our products in the US are inferior to other countries yet we pay the highest wages
Its not hard to figure out whats going on. JMO and again I am sorry if I insulted and union workers , Not everyone is bad in the union its just as a whole they are designed to profit...HUGE profit management and they don't care about the impact on the country...HMM kinda like the business's they claim to be protecting you from huh???
 
zman1

zman1

Active Member
Veni Vidi Vici, I completely agree with your last few posts.
Though the commodity is the white collar engineering group as well. We have outsource over the years a numbers of these jobs to overseas facilities (in what we would call third world countries) and brought in H-1B visa personnel from China and India, all the while laying off our American engineers. Also IT staffing has been outsourced with similar makeup. All in interest of shareholder value!!!!
Sadly, as I have said thousands of times... We value the investor over the American worker!!!!
The only jobs safe from outsourcing - Construction and the Service industries... If people lose their good paying American jobs to foreign cheap labor, it does put a burden on these, too.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
So lets allow unions in to make the cost of doing business even more expensive and see what happens as far as outsourcing.
A friend of mine's dad had a business back in the 70's where the employees were considering going union. He flat told them he would close the doors if they did because he was already making less money for himself than he did as a one man operation.
The workers didn't believe him. They should have. He sold off everything and used the money to start a new shop with modern equipment and one employee, made a whole lot more money and put in less hours.
 
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