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mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Basically, it would be a way for the democratics to repeal the 2nd Amendment without the whole hassle of going through the Constitutional means. What I find scary is at one point we were 1 Senate vote from this thing getting passed. If the democratics(and I don't care how many of them get A ratings from the NRA) ever get the presidency and 60 votes in the Senate(they had 59 so it was close), this will be ratified and we will have 3rd world scum dictating American gun law and a backdoor repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3458174
Basically, it would be a way for the democratics to repeal the 2nd Amendment without the whole hassle of going through the Constitutional means. What I find scary is at one point we were 1 Senate vote from this thing getting passed. If the democratics(and I don't care how many of them get A ratings from the NRA) ever get the presidency and 60 votes in the Senate(they had 59 so it was close), this will be ratified and we will have 3rd world scum dictating American gun law and a backdoor repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
I am a very reasonable sort. I am perfectly willing to use deadly force to protect my second amendment right. Until the second is voided by another amendment or I loose my legal right to own a gun I wont give them up and I know a whole lot of people who believe the same way. Besides if they try that through a treaty it will make the storm over the conterceptive coverage look like a childs tea party.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscardeuce http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3458123
Supposed to be part of UN Prop 21. I think our Constiution would prevent most of prop 21, but there are a lot of things in addition to gun rights this puts in jeopardy.
They'd argue, that a treaty would be the supreme law of the land. Superseding the constitution. And with the current administration, we'd have to go to court to overturn it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3458348
I am a very reasonable sort. I am perfectly willing to use deadly force to protect my second amendment right. Until the second is voided by another amendment or I loose my legal right to own a gun I wont give them up and I know a whole lot of people who believe the same way. Besides if they try that through a treaty it will make the storm over the conterceptive coverage look like a childs tea party.
lol, isn't that the very reason the founders wanted us to own guns anyway. To tell the government where to shove it... If they bugged us enough...
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
There's the rub, there is no mechanism, other than a repeal of the treaty, to stop the government from enforcing it. It would be a Constitutional stand-off. And we all know what side Obama, Holder and Hilary would fall on.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3458435
They'd argue, that a treaty would be the supreme law of the land. Superseding the constitution. And with the current administration, we'd have to go to court to overturn it.
lol, isn't that the very reason the founders wanted us to own guns anyway. To tell the government where to shove it... If they bugged us enough...
They could try to argue that. I'd be willing to bet there are more than 5 votes on the current court that would say "I don't think so Tim"
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3458348
I am a very reasonable sort. I am perfectly willing to use deadly force to protect my second amendment right. Until the second is voided by another amendment or I loose my legal right to own a gun I wont give them up and I know a whole lot of people who believe the same way. Besides if they try that through a treaty it will make the storm over the conterceptive coverage look like a childs tea party.
Let me know where to send the flowers. Gun nuts crack me up. Now there's some supposed treaty that will circumvent the 2nd? Waiting for the Birther Movement and the verification that they really did find aliens at Roswell to pop up next.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3460091
Let me know where to send the flowers. Gun nuts crack me up. Now there's some supposed treaty that will circumvent the 2nd? Waiting for the Birther Movement and the verification that they really did find aliens at Roswell to pop up next.

I would imagine the flowers would go to the family of whoever was dumb enough to order federal law enforcement to try to collect our guns. You can keep you head in the sand or stuffed wherever but the fact is a strong majority of people in this country aren't ascared of mean ol guns and would be on my side.
And yes, those of us who look beyond MSNBC and the left wing pajama "journalists" know about the treaty which would impose some troubling regulations that seems to follow 0bama's theme of pricing people out of activities that offend his delicate egalitarian sensibilities.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3460125
On a side note, (it will make me feel better I'm sorry). Unless you just committed a felony. You don't own an M4. An actual M4 is a full auto weapon. What you probably got was an Ar-15 with M4 like handguards.
Not if he passed the additional background checks and bought the tax stamp to own a real live automatic weapon. Not sure if NM bans them or not.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Actually Ruben, there are companies, like Colt and CMMG, that sell models listed as AR15/M4 models. They aren't "real" M4's or they'd be full-auto, but they are still called M4's. Only reason I know this is I am(if the wife doesn't kill me first) going to by a CMMG M4. But you are correct in that we can't buy a real M4 without the tax stamp and a mountain of Federal hoops to jump through.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
It was actually built. Due to the parts purchased and paid for in the build, it classified more like an M4 over the AR-15. It is not fully automatic. I thought about it for half a second, but realized, it isn't needed.
Rock River arms 6 position stock
A BCM Lower (M4/AR-15)
DPMS Upper
handles Nato 5.56 and .223
Bushnell Scope
A few other pieces that escape me as well at the moment.
picked up 2 30 round magazines and went shooting last night. It is gonna take some getting used to. Found out I am no where near as accurate using the sight rail vs. the scope.
I am thinking of getting the .50 beowulf option as well. It is only accurate up to 200 yards however.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3460117
I would imagine the flowers would go to the family of whoever was dumb enough to order federal law enforcement to try to collect our guns. You can keep you head in the sand or stuffed wherever but the fact is a strong majority of people in this country aren't ascared of mean ol guns and would be on my side.
And yes, those of us who look beyond MSNBC and the left wing pajama "journalists" know about the treaty which would impose some troubling regulations that seems to follow 0bama's theme of pricing people out of activities that offend his delicate egalitarian sensibilities.
Reef, I read MSNBC, FoxNews, CNN, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, The LA Times, and several other online news outlets on a daily basis. I have not seen any article referencing this "treaty conspiracy" you speak. If there is one, I either missed it, or it's not newsworthy enough to keep in the headlines. I imagine the NRA gun advocates are spewing this to whoever wants to read it. One of the problems with mass media today. Stick something out there enough, and people will begin to believe it's true. It has nothing to do with keeping my head in the sand. I could simply care less. I don't walk around with a fatalist attitude and worry about things that are beyond my control. I'm sure that if this "made for TV movie" conspiracy did come to fruition, you could have all the firepower you wanted, and you'd still be dead trying to defend keeping it. You may get your shots in, but you'd be dead all the same. Go ask David Koresh how that turned out for him. Oh wait, he's dead.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/20#post_3457333
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/28/president-obamas-anti-gun-agenda-shows-no-sign-stopping/
Paranoia is unfounded fear of the unknown. Chew on this article and please, look up the sources linked. But you already know everything said is true, you're just not an honest enough person to come out and admit you agree with all this ultra-liberal kookiness. You lack the courage to support it openly, so you demean the message and messengers. At least I have the courage to stand up on my principles and proudly proclaim what I believe instead of hiding behind semantics. Why won't you?
I guess you didn't look too hard.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

Reef, I read MSNBC, FoxNews, CNN, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, The LA Times, and several other online news outlets on a daily basis.  I have not seen any article referencing this "treaty conspiracy" you speak.  If there is one, I either missed it, or it's not newsworthy enough to keep in the headlines.  I imagine the NRA gun advocates are spewing this to whoever wants to read it.  One of the problems with mass media today.  Stick something out there enough, and people will begin to believe it's true.  It has nothing to do with keeping my head in the sand.  I could simply care less.  I don't walk around with a fatalist attitude and worry about things that are beyond my control.  I'm sure that if this "made for TV movie" conspiracy did come to fruition, you could have all the firepower you wanted, and you'd still be dead trying to defend keeping it.  You may get your shots in, but you'd be dead all the same.  Go ask David Koresh how that turned out for him.  Oh wait, he's dead.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/15/us-arms-usa-treaty-idUSTRE59E0Q920091015
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/18/us-arms-treaty-idUSTRE81H03P20120218
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/05/proposed-un-treaty-to-regulate-global-firearms-trade-raising-concerns-for-us/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=abkyS4.975YM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/06/07/u-n-agreement-should-have-all-gun-owners-up-in-arms/
http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/07/26/opposition-mounts-to-un-gun-control-treaty-opposition-mounts-to-un-gun-control-treaty
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/27/the-un-gun-grabber/
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46436579/ns/world_news/t/collapse-arms-trade-treaty-talks-narrowly-averted/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43773010/ns/us_news-life/t/nra-anti-gun-elitists-un-threaten-right-bear-arms/
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-18/politics/start.treaty_1_treaty-arms-control-nuclear-arsenal?_s=PM:pOLITICS
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-02/us/obama.start_1_new-nuclear-arms-treaty-new-start-pact-russian-parliament?_s=PM:US
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17015621
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/special-report/transcript/time-start-over-arms-treaty
As you are prone to say, Google...it is a wonderful tool.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3460135
Not if he passed the additional background checks and bought the tax stamp to own a real live automatic weapon. Not sure if NM bans them or not.
well, if inspired by this thread, he hasn't been waiting 6 - 9 months for the feds to clear the class 3 gun... Plus I'm pretty sure the M4 is a post 1986 weapon...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3460175
It was actually built. Due to the parts purchased and paid for in the build, it classified more like an M4 over the AR-15. It is not fully automatic. I thought about it for half a second, but realized, it isn't needed.
Rock River arms 6 position stock
A BCM Lower (M4/AR-15)
DPMS Upper
handles Nato 5.56 and .223
Bushnell Scope
A few other pieces that escape me as well at the moment.
picked up 2 30 round magazines and went shooting last night. It is gonna take some getting used to. Found out I am no where near as accurate using the sight rail vs. the scope.
I am thinking of getting the .50 beowulf option as well. It is only accurate up to 200 yards however.
I shot an AR the other day with an EOTech Holosight. They are bad A.
I'm just warning you, if you run around calling your gun an M4. The gun nuts will mock you...
 
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