Want a gun? Just buy it on Craigslist

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/60#post_3460192
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/10/15/us-arms-usa-treaty-idUSTRE59E0Q920091015
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/18/us-arms-treaty-idUSTRE81H03P20120218
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/05/proposed-un-treaty-to-regulate-global-firearms-trade-raising-concerns-for-us/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=abkyS4.975YM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/06/07/u-n-agreement-should-have-all-gun-owners-up-in-arms/
http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/07/26/opposition-mounts-to-un-gun-control-treaty-opposition-mounts-to-un-gun-control-treaty
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/27/the-un-gun-grabber/
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46436579/ns/world_news/t/collapse-arms-trade-treaty-talks-narrowly-averted/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43773010/ns/us_news-life/t/nra-anti-gun-elitists-un-threaten-right-bear-arms/
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-18/politics/start.treaty_1_treaty-arms-control-nuclear-arsenal?_s=PMOLITICS
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-02/us/obama.start_1_new-nuclear-arms-treaty-new-start-pact-russian-parliament?_s=PM:US
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17015621
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/special-report/transcript/time-start-over-arms-treaty
As you are prone to say, Google...it is a wonderful tool.
Yea, I read that story. A bunch of gun nuts on another forum I peruse were raising a stink about this. Yet another misinterpretation of the intent of the treaty.
Guess you didn't read this part:
“People within the U.S. should not be worried about it unless they sell arms internationally,” Collin Goddard, of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told FoxNews.com. “The whole treaty is to prevent countries from selling guns to other countries that have gross violations of human rights.”
Goddard said that concerns about a possible national gun registry is ridiculous because the intent of the treaty was only to restrict arms sales between countries. “This does not cover weapons that are kept internally,” he said, adding that the ISU would be kept efficient.
I suppose this may affect you if you plan on selling that new M4 you just purchased to some Mexican Drug Cartel gun runner. Maybe you can get with Holder and see if he can use it with his next Fast And Furious debacle.

 

[mantisman51]

Maybe you shouldn't believe anti-gun nuts and dismiss us "gun nuts" quite so fast. In the story it says the critical piece of the treaty is tracking personal weapons. The treaty isn't about guns sold by nations-that is what the Brady liar is trying to spin it as. It is to track PRIVATE firearms and keep PRIVATE firearms from being trafficked. There are already a bunch of treaties regarding governments selling firearms. The Brady liar is blatantly lying-the only way to keep private firearms from being traded to the "wrong people" is to register all private firearms. Secondly, in the Fox News story it quotes the treaty where it says the U.N. will have jurisdiction to stop private gun sales and confiscate weapons it deems a danger to be smuggled, though as the story states, the mechanism for enforcement hadn't been worked out. Hey Bionic, I got a bridge to sell you. The Brady Campaign says it's legit. So you gotta buy it, right?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460247
Maybe you shouldn't believe anti-gun nuts and dismiss us "gun nuts" quite so fast. In the story it says the critical piece of the treaty is tracking personal weapons. The treaty isn't about guns sold by nations-that is what the Brady liar is trying to spin it as. It is to track PRIVATE firearms and keep PRIVATE firearms from being trafficked. There are already a bunch of treaties regarding governments selling firearms. The Brady liar is blatantly lying-the only way to keep private firearms from being traded to the "wrong people" is to register all private firearms. Secondly, in the Fox News story it quotes the treaty where it says the U.N. will have jurisdiction to stop private gun sales and confiscate weapons it deems a danger to be smuggled, though as the story states, the mechanism for enforcement hadn't been worked out. Hey Bionic, I got a bridge to sell you. The Brady Campaign says it's legit. So you gotta buy it, right?
Where do you get your facts that the "Brady liar" is lying? All you're doing is SPECULATING that this treaty will allow the U.N. to stop private gun sales, which is ludicrous. Where is your proof this can occur? Because some "gun nut" or NRA loon made that interpretation? Anytime anyone makes a slight hint regarding any form of gun control, the NRA jumps to conclusions that the intent it to circumvent the 2nd Amendment. Even after the Brady Act came into place, gun owners were still able to purchase their guns and their ammo. You claim they want to restrict access to specific types of weapons (i.e. large magazine semi-auto's), yet Darth jjust got him a sweet deal on an M4. Look at the weapons that the Discovery Channel "Sons Of Guns" show is producing. Oh yeah, our 2nd Amendment rights are being destroyed as we speak.

 

[stdreb27]

I love it, you're a gun nut. But he'll take a braidy bunch kook's word for something....

 

[mantisman51]

It is only legal for them to sell those new guns because the "assault weapons" law expired. Previous to that, it had been illegal back to 1993 to own most all accessories used on these new "assault weapons", except for those already installed and then, they could not be transferred. “Parties shall take all necessary measures to control brokering activities taking place within its territories … to prevent the diversion of exported arms into the illicit market or to unintended end users,” This treaty, as even the Brady liar admits, is to control the sale of privately owned firearms. The only way for the U.N., and in turn the U.S., is to register all private firearms so they can't be "trafficked". That is a direct quote from the treaty 2 sentences back-not the NRA or any "gun nut". The treaty, according to Bloomberg News, gives the U.N. the power to confiscate guns that are in danger of being illegally trafficked. If they aren't registered, how can they know where they are and who owns them and who is going to buy them? Last year a record 5 million guns were sold in the U.S. and the production has greatly increased to meet the demand. So you lefties are never going to get your dream. We Americans of Constitutional, and testosteronal, fortitude will never be without firearms. And when the lefties gain enough control to enact these unConstitutional laws, it will be they who are responsible for the dissolution of this great nation and the ensuing violence thereafter..

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460262
It is only legal for them to sell those new guns because the "assault weapons" law expired. Previous to that, it had been illegal back to 1993 to own most all accessories used on these new "assault weapons", except for those already installed and then, they could not be transferred. “Parties shall take all necessary measures to control brokering activities taking place within its territories … to prevent the diversion of exported arms into the illicit market or to unintended end users,” This treaty, as even the Brady liar admits, is to control the sale of privately owned firearms. The only way for the U.N., and in turn the U.S., is to register all private firearms so they can't be "trafficked". That is a direct quote from the treaty 2 sentences back-not the NRA or any "gun nut". The treaty, according to Bloomberg News, gives the U.N. the power to confiscate guns that are in danger of being illegally trafficked. If they aren't registered, how can they know where they are and who owns them and who is going to buy them? Last year a record 5 million guns were sold in the U.S. and the production has greatly increased to meet the demand. So you lefties are never going to get your dream. We Americans of Constitutional, and testosteronal, fortitude will never be without firearms. And when the lefties gain enough control to enact these unConstitutional laws, it will be they who are responsible for the dissolution of this great nation and the ensuing violence thereafter..
Dude, your guns are already registered. Remember filling out that paperwork and waiting 3 days before you can take your gun home? You're taking that statement completely out of context. Re-read "To prevent the diversion of exported arms into the illicit market or to unintended end users." Isn't that what we're trying to do with Mexico? Keep semi-auto and other weapons from crossing the border and into that country? Or do you not have any problems with the Zetas and other drug cartels shooting innocent victims with guns purchased in the US?
You're last statement is hilarious. Is David Koresh your father? All talk and no action. I could see you and Reef building your bunkers and foxholes, waiting for the US Army or Marines to pull up in their armor-plated humvees or tanks, targeting your compound with a laser-guided missle. BOOOM! Forget Constitutionalist. Try Sensationalist.

 

[darthtang aw]

bionic, did you even read the news stories?
the treaty has not been drafted yet. many things have been mentioned to put in the tgreaty that would affecg personal gun ownership here in the u.s. but i main question is...did you read the links?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460293
bionic, did you even read the news stories?
the treaty has not been drafted yet. many things have been mentioned to put in the tgreaty that would affecg personal gun ownership here in the u.s. but i main question is...did you read the links?
Yes I did. Did you?
Reuters:
"The proposed legally binding treaty would tighten regulation of, and set international standards for, the import, export and transfer of conventional weapons."
"Arms control campaigners say one person every minute dies as a result of armed violence and that a convention is needed to prevent illicitly traded guns from pouring into conflict zones and fueling wars and atrocities."
Bloomberg:
"The U.S. trade in conventional weapons amounts to 40 percent of the global total, according to Wood. The resolution says the unregulated trade in conventional arms “can fuel instability, transnational organized crime and terrorism.”
Forbes:
The Larry Bell guy makes these supposed CLAIMS of what the Treaty would "possibly" do, but he provides no links or evidence to prove what he claims will happen is true.
Washington Times:
Just some biased editorial again with no facts to back up the claims.
The rest of the links just regurgitate the same mantra as all the others. Most of them conjecture and speculation by NRA lobbyists. Where's the link to the actual Treaty that specifically states that the U.N can regulate who owns and purchases firearms in the US?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460207
Yea, I read that story. A bunch of gun nuts on another forum I peruse were raising a stink about this. Yet another misinterpretation of the intent of the treaty.
Guess you didn't read this part:
“People within the U.S. should not be worried about it unless they sell arms internationally,” Collin Goddard, of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told FoxNews.com. “The whole treaty is to prevent countries from selling guns to other countries that have gross violations of human rights.”
Goddard said that concerns about a possible national gun registry is ridiculous because the intent of the treaty was only to restrict arms sales between countries. “This does not cover weapons that are kept internally,” he said, adding that the ISU would be kept efficient.
I suppose this may affect you if you plan on selling that new M4 you just purchased to some Mexican Drug Cartel gun runner. Maybe you can get with Holder and see if he can use it with his next Fast And Furious debacle.

LOL! The Brady campaign lies more than the 0bama justice department. Among other things included in the proposed treaty is the requirement that countries that "host" gun manufacturers must set up a fund to pay "Victims" of their products in other countries. Now where do you suppose the money to start that fund will come from? There are numerous other provisions that open the door to make it impossible to continue to build firearms and ammunition in this country.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460273
Dude, your guns are already registered. Remember filling out that paperwork and waiting 3 days before you can take your gun home? You're taking that statement completely out of context. Re-read "To prevent the diversion of exported arms into the illicit market or to unintended end users." Isn't that what we're trying to do with Mexico? Keep semi-auto and other weapons from crossing the border and into that country? Or do you not have any problems with the Zetas and other drug cartels shooting innocent victims with guns purchased in the US?
You're last statement is hilarious. Is David Koresh your father? All talk and no action. I could see you and Reef building your bunkers and foxholes, waiting for the US Army or Marines to pull up in their armor-plated humvees or tanks, targeting your compound with a laser-guided missle. BOOOM! Forget Constitutionalist. Try Sensationalist.
If the guns were brought private party they are not tracked in any way. Even if they were bought new the paper work is held buy the gun store you purchased them from, not the government. The government would have to go to the gun stores with warrants to access the records.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460395
If the guns were brought private party they are not tracked in any way. Even if they were bought new the paper work is held buy the gun store you purchased them from, not the government. The government would have to go to the gun stores with warrants to access the records.
Ergo the whole point of the OP. Buy a gun from a private party, go blow someone away with it, and who'll know which gun was used, or where it came from?
Read the last line of this statement:
A Firearms Transaction Record, or Form 4473, is a United States government form that must be filled out when a person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (such as a gun shop).
The Form 4473 contains name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, make/model/serial number of the firearm, and a short federal affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law. Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison in addition to fines, even if the transaction is simply denied by the NICS.
The dealer also records all information from the Form 4473 into their "bound-book". A dealer must keep this log the entire time they are in business and is required to surrender the log to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) upon retirement from the firearms business. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five day period must be reported to ATF on Form 3310.4.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460386
LOL! The Brady campaign lies more than the 0bama justice department. Among other things included in the proposed treaty is the requirement that countries that "host" gun manufacturers must set up a fund to pay "Victims" of their products in other countries. Now where do you suppose the money to start that fund will come from? There are numerous other provisions that open the door to make it impossible to continue to build firearms and ammunition in this country.
Again, show me the actual treaty where all these conspiracy theories come from.

 

[bionicarm]

Try this "factoid":
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/international-gun-ban-treaty/

 

[darthtang aw]

Yes I did.  Did you?
Reuters:
"The proposed legally binding treaty would tighten regulation of, and set international standards for, the import, export and transfer of conventional weapons."
"Arms control campaigners say one person every minute dies as a result of armed violence and that a convention is needed to prevent illicitly traded guns from pouring into conflict zones and fueling wars and atrocities."
Bloomberg:
"The U.S. trade in conventional weapons amounts to 40 percent of the global total, according to Wood. The resolution says the unregulated trade in conventional arms “can fuel instability, transnational organized crime and terrorism.”
Forbes:
The Larry Bell guy makes these supposed CLAIMS of what the Treaty would "possibly" do, but he provides no links or evidence to prove what he claims will happen is true.
Washington Times:
Just some biased editorial again with no facts to back up the claims.
The rest of the links just regurgitate the same mantra as all the others.  Most of them conjecture and speculation by NRA lobbyists.  Where's the link to the actual Treaty that specifically states that the U.N can regulate who owns and purchases firearms in the US?
no you didnt read them.how do I know? 4 of them are stories dealing with the nuclear disarmament treaty. which further proves what we already knew.....

 

[darthtang aw]

a couple points i need to make to all.
the treaty has not been drafted yet. it is in development stages and all the concerns that have been debated have been tossed out as possible regulations in the treaty.
my other point....the constitution superceeds all treaties and international law with in the un ited states. therefore ev en if international law were to ban gun ownership, the constitution would trump internatikonal law or treaties within our own border. provided our lwn government bodies continue to respect and uphold u.s. law and constitution.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460428
Again, show me the actual treaty where all these conspiracy theories come from.
It's not finalized yet. These are provisions that are being pushed for as part of the treaty. They also want ammunition tracking;

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460440
a couple points i need to make to all.
the treaty has not been drafted yet. it is in development stages and all the concerns that have been debated have been tossed out as possible regulations in the treaty.
my other point....the constitution superceeds all treaties and international law with in the un ited states. therefore ev en if international law were to ban gun ownership, the constitution would trump internatikonal law or treaties within our own border. provided our lwn government bodies continue to respect and uphold u.s. law and constitution.
They can't ban "gun ownership" but they can pick and choose which guns we may own, how much it will cost us to own them and the amount we pay for ammo. It isn't an absolute that a treaty cannot trump the constitution. I got that from a real live Constitutional law professor who unlike Billion Dollar Berry is a qualified professor and not a lecturer LOL! He thought it unlikely but said where there is no precident AND two liberal members of the SCOTUS have quoted foreign laws in decenting decisions they have written. One more appointment could render that as a majority view on the court.

 

[darthtang aw]

true on the scotus, and it would definitely come down to our supreme court if ratified. the main concern from what i have read is not so much the "register" but the banning of certain firearms for sale.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/390399/want-a-gun-just-buy-it-on-craigslist/80#post_3460457
They can't ban "gun ownership" but they can pick and choose which guns we may own, how much it will cost us to own them and the amount we pay for ammo. It isn't an absolute that a treaty cannot trump the constitution. I got that from a real live Constitutional law professor who unlike Billion Dollar Berry is a qualified professor and not a lecturer LOL! He thought it unlikely but said where there is no precident AND two liberal members of the SCOTUS have quoted foreign laws in decenting decisions they have written. One more appointment could render that as a majority view on the court.
They can't do squat. Again, the treaty has to do with exportation of firearms to international countries. Go do a Google on "UN gun treaty". Your "expert" opinions come from sites called www.buckeyefirearms.org, www.thetruthaboutguns.com, forums.gunsandammo.com, gunowners.org, and a few hundred other pro-gun advocate blog sites. We've been hearing from gun nuts for the last three years how Obama is going to tell you what guns you can buy, and how much ammo you can own. What's hilarious is all this did was drive the prices up on those products because the conspiracy theorist like mantis went out and stockpiled ammo, which ended up inflating the cost. It's been over a year since I've heard people screaming they would restrict ammo purchases, and I walked into my local Bass Pro Shops the other day, and the aisles were full to the hilt with every guage of ammo you needed. My buddy bought 3 boxes of .45 hollow points for $19.99 that were on sale. He also picked up a couple boxes of .223 for his AR-15 that we went out and shot this past weekend. Watch out reef. Those lights you see flickering in the sky? Aliens coming back to pick up their lost brothers in Roswell.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

 

[mantisman51]

If the treaty were to be ratified, the current administration would enforce every provision, Constitution be damned. They would then hope that they are re-elected and have replaced 1 Supreme Court justice and could have the personal right decision overturned and voila!, no need to change the Constitution and with one simple SC appointment: liberal heaven! So to say its' ratification and enforcement is an impossibility is to misunderestimate (Bushism) the calculating flaming-left liberal mind.