Yes, YET ANOTHER POLITICAL THREAD! lol

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2711425
But if we are importing what 60-70% of our oil we are not going to be "cutting our dependance" on foreign oil.
The question is why are we currently importing 60-70% of our oil? And why do we export about the same amount we bring it? Couldn't we already be energy independent of foreign oil, if we choose to be?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711527
The question is why are we currently importing 60-70% of our oil? And why do we export about the same amount we bring it? Couldn't we already be energy independent of foreign oil, if we choose to be?
I am going to quote myself...
We export 1/2 of the amount of oil or oil product we import... hmmmm... what's wrong with this picture?
What this means to me is that we are all under the common misconception that more domestic drilling will go directly to the US consumer and our pocket book... where the real truth according to this report is that the bulk of it will go to the oil companies bottomline. There best interest isn't to the American people, but to share holders.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711539
I am going to quote myself...
We export 1/2 of the amount of oil or oil product we import... hmmmm... what's wrong with this picture?
What this means to me is that we are all under the common misconception that more domestic drilling will go directly to the US consumer and our pocket book... where the real truth according to this report is that the bulk of it will go to the oil companies bottomline. There best interest isn't to the American people, but to share holders.

ugg, Typically we export oil because we don't have the refinery capability to refine the oil here in the usa, alot of the oil here in the usa is a dirtier oil and we haven't build a new refinery in over 30 years.
This is just typical misinformation.
You tell me,
Oil - production: 8.322 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - consumption: 20.8 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - exports: 1.048 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - imports: 13.15 million bbl/day (2004)
bbl/d = Barrels a day.
link
I'm not sure where you get your exporting half our oil.
(1.048/8.322)*100= 12%
That is a huge difference...
12 million barrels a day isn't going to be offset by airing up my tires and driving a prius...
Listen to what you are proposing!

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2711559
...
Listen to what you are proposing!
You mean besides proposing Nationalizing the oil industry?
That's what all of this talk of not exporting our oil comes down too. Take selling a global commodity off of the world market...

 

[1journeyman]

btw Rylan, I'd like to finish our Constitution discussion from earlier in this thread at your convenience.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711409
Diesel is a byproduct of gas right? I agree that more diesel is an option.. however more diesel vehicles mean more gasoline production which is the problem... Have you seen the price of diesel lately? There are also better crops for ethanol than corn... You can also convert trash to ethanol... Electric cars such as the Telsa are high performance and costs $0.02 per mile, and get about 220 miles per "charge" The technology is there, but automakers have not produced the vehicles in mass quanities. If we put the same effort into alternatives as oil.... we could get to where we need to be in a relatively short time.
I'm not saying cut oil all together, but if we cut oil use by 25% - 40% in 20 years.... that would have a drastic effect.

You just made my point. 20 years off before we see a real impact. The cars like the Tesla (great band by the way) are VERY expensive and not practical in the real world. If you got $$$ and live in the big city and want to look cool driving to the club or something they will work.
The Diesel technology is already here and cost effective. It isn't perfect but it a step in the right direction. They alrady have a plug in car with a gas engine back up. Those are still pretty spendy because of the batteries.
Right now there is a race to build the first super battery. Even Exxon is in the fight on that. First company that develops a quick charge battery system is going to make a whole lot of money. In the meantime lithium is the hot ticket. Toyota is going to switch over to lithium batteries next year. I plan on getting back every cent I spent on gas this year by owning stock in the worlds largest lithium producer next year

 

[miaheatlvr]

Strong conservative presence here! I like it for a change!

AND look at my post count! Purely coincidence of course!

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711423
When did Brazil find oil?
Answer is in 2007..and that is not really relative to the discussion because their vehicles are independent of oil...
Your 5 year timeline is also very optimistic.... and its after an oil source is found. So you are talking more in best case scenarios... Either way, the oil we could produce from places like Anwar would have little to no effect on the price per barrel we no face.
Dude, I don't know what you source for information is but you need to find a new one. Look up the history of Petrobras, the Brazilian national oil company that was formed in 1953. As far as us exporting oil maybe half of one percent of our production and most of that goes to Canada to be refined and shipped back here.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711539
I am going to quote myself...
We export 1/2 of the amount of oil or oil product we import... hmmmm... what's wrong with this picture?
What this means to me is that we are all under the common misconception that more domestic drilling will go directly to the US consumer and our pocket book... where the real truth according to this report is that the bulk of it will go to the oil companies bottomline. There best interest isn't to the American people, but to share holders.
How about more domestic oil, more domestic refineries and more domestic nuclear plants. We get much more than gas from oil, without oil, no aquariums, plastics, etc. I know of no viable alternative fuel for jet engines, and the airlines parked 400+ jets recently. There are no hybrid aircraft at this point, and a few are approved to run on ethanol, but then why burn food? As to conservation sure save as much as much as you can, but Mr Obama says get your car tuned up, from what I've read from 1995 to the present the little computer in your car does that for you. Only about 20% of the fleet is pre 1995, so that looks like it will not save as much as claimed.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711539
where the real truth according to this report is that the bulk of it will go to the oil companies bottomline. There best interest isn't to the American people, but to share holders.
Spoken like a true socialist. Who do you think are the shareholders? We are. If you have a 401K/mutual fund/pension fund, I bet you are invested somewhere in "evil oil". I know I am. Many investors sold their oil stocks as the return was not good enough.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711423
When did Brazil find oil?
Answer is in 2007..and that is not really relative to the discussion because their vehicles are independent of oil...
Your 5 year timeline is also very optimistic.... and its after an oil source is found. So you are talking more in best case scenarios... Either way, the oil we could produce from places like Anwar would have little to no effect on the price per barrel we no face.
Good God Rylan have you had your head burried under a rock? Their are two MAJOR fields in or actually off the coast of Brazil one they found less than ten years ago, another was discovered early this year.
I just got off a project where from discovery to first oil was 4 years in brazil.
As for Brazil, they are sitting on enough oil that opec is considering letting them into the cartel. So I think my timetable is safely optimistic. But once again I ask, What difference does it make if it is 4 years or 10 years? Either way it doesn't matter we need new oil.
I"m being asked by obama to accept that it would be quicker to invent some new form of transportation, take all the gasoline vehicles off the roads and replace them with this alternative. Than it would be to drill a few holes in the ground and suck out the oil. Come on this doesn't make sense.
Let me ask you this, if producing producing more 1.5 mb/d isn't going to effect gas prices, then what in the world will releasing 700 million barrels from the strategic reserve accomplish?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2712052
Dude, I don't know what you source for information is but you need to find a new one. Look up the history of Petrobras, the Brazilian national oil company that was formed in 1953. As far as us exporting oil maybe half of one percent of our production and most of that goes to Canada to be refined and shipped back here.
It is close to 12% see the link.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2711559
ugg, Typically we export oil because we don't have the refinery capability to refine the oil here in the usa, alot of the oil here in the usa is a dirtier oil and we haven't build a new refinery in over 30 years.
This is just typical misinformation.
You tell me,
Oil - production: 8.322 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - consumption: 20.8 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - exports: 1.048 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - imports: 13.15 million bbl/day (2004)
bbl/d = Barrels a day.
link
I'm not sure where you get your exporting half our oil.
(1.048/8.322)*100= 12%
That is a huge difference...
12 million barrels a day isn't going to be offset by airing up my tires and driving a prius...
Listen to what you are proposing!

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2711388
..
But you are missing the point... The Brazilians found a solution to their current energy problem and dependence on oil. The answer for us will not be sugarcane; however, if we took the same approach to the problem as they did... we could solve our energy crisis.
Have you ever compared the populations of both countries? The compared the amount of vehicles per family? Then compared the farm land used. The compare the effects of cutting down more trees to farm land on your precious global warming issue. Then compare average distance driven in each country.
Do this before bringing this up and then come back and tell us you still think it is a viable option. May as well tell me to make sure my tires are aired up as well.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2712383
It is close to 12% see the link.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...0_mbblpd_w.htm
This is a short period of time but at the bottom of the chart they show the exports with the crude oil and petroleum product amounts broken down.
I saw a story a while back about tankers from South America stopping at a US port, adding a small amount of US crude to the load is "blended" and then shipping it off to Europe I think it was. Because it is blended with US oil there is some kind of a tax or trade advantage.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2712506
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pe...0_mbblpd_w.htm
This is a short period of time but at the bottom of the chart they show the exports with the crude oil and petroleum product amounts broken down.
I saw a story a while back about tankers from South America stopping at a US port, adding a small amount of US crude to the load is "blended" and then shipping it off to Europe I think it was. Because it is blended with US oil there is some kind of a tax or trade advantage.
Your chart is cooler than mine, they have it separated into crude I was using "petroleum products"
On another note, it really doesn't matter how much we export vs how much we import. All our oil goes onto a global market, and is sold, if we buy it, which we will have a tendency to do because of shipping costs vs a foreign country it doesn't matter as long as we have enough were if opec pulled some crap like they did in the 70's we wouldn't be out of gas we'd be fine.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2712451
Have you ever compared the populations of both countries? The compared the amount of vehicles per family? Then compared the farm land used. The compare the effects of cutting down more trees to farm land on your precious global warming issue. Then compare average distance driven in each country.
Do this before bringing this up and then come back and tell us you still think it is a viable option. May as well tell me to make sure my tires are aired up as well.
You are missing the point, and making excuses... We have an energy problem... The problem is rooted in our dependency of oil... So the answer/solution to the problem is to become less dependent on oil, and to use other alternatives... I know that sugarcane is not an option for us... but there is a solution... This is a challenge comparable to putting a man on the moon... We have the ability and the ingeuinity to rise to the occasion. And you above comments just show how spoiled we are...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2714164
You are missing the point, and making excuses... We have an energy problem... The problem is rooted in our dependency of oil... So the answer/solution to the problem is to become less dependent on oil, and to use other alternatives... I know that sugarcane is not an option for us... but there is a solution... This is a challenge comparable to putting a man on the moon... We have the ability and the ingeuinity to rise to the occasion. And you above comments just show how spoiled we are...
Riight, because oil is bad

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2712380
Good God Rylan have you had your head burried under a rock? Their are two MAJOR fields in or actually off the coast of Brazil one they found less than ten years ago, another was discovered early this year.
I just got off a project where from discovery to first oil was 4 years in brazil.
As for Brazil, they are sitting on enough oil that opec is considering letting them into the cartel. So I think my timetable is safely optimistic. But once again I ask, What difference does it make if it is 4 years or 10 years? Either way it doesn't matter we need new oil.
I"m being asked by obama to accept that it would be quicker to invent some new form of transportation, take all the gasoline vehicles off the roads and replace them with this alternative. Than it would be to drill a few holes in the ground and suck out the oil. Come on this doesn't make sense.
Let me ask you this, if producing producing more 1.5 mb/d isn't going to effect gas prices, then what in the world will releasing 700 million barrels from the strategic reserve accomplish?
You were right... I can admit when I am wrong... I quickly skimmed a report... But lets say we do drill... how much could we actually extract? In % terms how much would be needed to make a difference in the "world oil market"... If we double our production ...we still wouldn't have enough refineries to produce the gas

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2714169
Riight, because oil is bad

I am not saying oil is bad... We will continue to use and need it, however we have to reduce or consumption of it. What are the negatives? Its obvious you only agree with what you want to hear and what makes you comfortable... Drilling is easy and short-term.... What happened to Americans being leaders in science and innovation?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2714173
You were right... I can admit when I am wrong... I quickly skimmed a report... But lets say we do drill... how much could we actually extract? In % terms how much would be needed to make a difference in the "world oil market"... If we double our production ...we still wouldn't have enough refineries to produce the gas
You aren't going to see me arguing against building more refineries...
Brazil has enough oil that they once their fields are up to production they'll be MAJOR players if they don't

[hr]
it up b/c they are corrupt.
You are talking over 800 billion barrels of oil between Anwar, the shelfs and the green river basin.
You have to remember oil is traded on the commodity market, so not only does actual oil fluxuate based on the current supply (if you hear the news they'll say oil went up and down based off the reserves report) but also on the (and this is key) perception of a change in supply. If you notice when their is a hurricane in the gulf that looks like it might go in near New Orleans or Houston oil prices go with without it actually have happened yet...
Perceptions are not long term, once the perception changes so does the behavior of the traders. However an actual change in means of production will change prices long term.