DO NOT DO as Meowzer did :(

florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
You Quote” I recommend using the live sand because that sand has biological colonies on it which will help to kick start the bio filter “
How can we be sure without a microscopic evaluation of the sand that there are any colonies of nitrifying bacteria on the sand? So this is an opinion and not necessarily fact
Your quote” I recommend using the live sand because that sand has biological colonies on it which will help to kick start the bio filter bio filter due to the surface space for colonies to grow on tiny grains of sand, as opposed to just a bare-bottom tank.”
Although the tank may be bare bottomed the area in which the colonies of nitrifying bacteria will grow are those which come in contact with nutrient rich food (ammonia nitrites and nitrates) this area is most likely the mechanical filter material placed in the filter of the HT/QT. IMO a HT/QT does not contain many fish so the bio load is small the sand may in fact never come in contact with the nutrients it needs to sustain any bacteria
You quote” What do you think happens to a QT when you bring fish home from the fish store and put it in the QT? You are going to introduce a parasite or a disease at some point. “
I most certainly recommend using a QT BUT I know many hobbyists that have never QT and have never introduced a parasite or disease into their tank. So again there is no guarantee one way or the other
You quote “If that is the case, then hypo will kill ich on the fish and/or ich on the sand, or wherever it is”
Sorry but this is just not true. As I am sure you well know the two known ways to brake the life cycle of ick is to attack it in its free swimming stage(copper) or its divisional stage.(Hypo) I have never seen any info stating that either method works while the fish is infected. If you have info the contrary please post it
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
What I would do is introduce some organics for brake down and test for nitrification. Get some PRIME so you can deal with ammonia and or nitrites as you build your bio filtration. Now you have to decide if you rather take the chance with what killed your other fish and leave the goby in the DT until you achieve bio filtration in the HT OR put him in the HT now and deal with any ammonia or nitrites with the prime and water changes
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/60#post_3412021
WELL...even though I am not home....my sand barrier has been installed...LOL...SO when I get home I will fill the tank with the NEW sw....and add the sand to the sand box (LOL) from the 225G.....I will then take the filter media from my 29G tank and place it in the 16G filter....HOPEFULLY that will be enough biological stuffesses haha
I will run the filter, and put in one of my spare maxijets powerheads....
OK...NEXT QUESTION.....How do I know when it is ready for the goby to go in? (I'm just not seeing that in the instructions here)
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412024
What I would do is introduce some organics for brake down and test for nitrification. Get some PRIME so you can deal with ammonia and or nitrites as you build your bio filtration. Now you have to decide if you rather take the chance with what killed your other fish and leave the goby in the DT until you achieve bio filtration in the HT OR put him in the HT now and deal with any ammonia or nitrites with the prime and water changes
I have Amquel+
I feel okay leaving the goby where it is and not rushing it....ONLY because I did a good w/c yesterday, and it has eaten voraciously for me last night and this morning.
Organic what????
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Wow, I'm soo sorry to read this Lois. You have been VERY lucky as far as fish go - I got my first rude introduction to ich on the 3rd or 4th fish I ever bought. I can tell you PLEASE be very carefull with ANY equipment or hands that touch the contaminated tank and ensure they don't get used in the 225g... It only takes one drop of "bad" water on a pippette, net, grabbers, siphon tube - anything used has GOTTA be flushed with HOT tap after use in the sick tank. (i've cross-contaminated tanks before) If something bad does happen in the 225- I've an empty 75g std tank that's dry that you could borrow & use to qtine them...just let me know. Please keep us updated on your qtine progress - we'll send you all the help possible.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
REALLY......Good thing I use a different pump for water changes.....SO are you saying that if I use the same pump on one of my other small tanks I could transmit it to them?????
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I think what you want to do to set up an emergency QT that doesn't require you to wait until a raw shrimp rots away in your tank before you use the tank.
If you add some rubble live rock (not much-a piece or two) and then feed that rock sparingly (1x a day) with your regular fish food for 3 days you will get better results. This actually produces a good marine biological filter that may not even result in ammonification in the tank. You can leave the rubble rock in the QT during hypo. With the sand, rubble rock and filters you will be good to go quick.
As you begin to bring the tank into hypo conditions, the water changes will also start diluting out the water in your QT--diluting the organics that are in there once the fish is added.
I think your goal with this will be to prevent a major ammonia spike; you want to establish a QT that is already pretty much ready to go--or nearly ready. It would be a good idea to have hypo-ed water on hand for maybe a gal water change every 2 days.
Care will be needed when feeding the fish small meals that can be quickly all consumed. Remember, don't net the fish.
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
You absolutly could! ! ! ! I have not had ich in a DT in 5 years - but before that - I did transfer it through a siphon hose that I used for draining.refilling tanks by NOT thinking, and brought ich into a 2nd dt tank.... Now I use totally seperate equipment for a qtine tank, buckets/nets/hoses/xfer pumps/storage water/grabbers/pippetts for doing water tests - and wash hands very well after exposing them in sick tank/qtine water...and either stearlize anything that touches contaminated water OR use seperate equip.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412070
I think what you want to do to set up an emergency QT that doesn't require you to wait until a raw shrimp rots away in your tank before you use the tank.
If you add some rubble live rock (not much-a piece or two) and then feed that rock sparingly (1x a day) with your regular fish food for 3 days you will get better results. This actually produces a good marine biological filter that may not even result in ammonification in the tank. You can leave the rubble rock in the QT during hypo. With the sand, rubble rock and filters you will be good to go quick.
As you begin to bring the tank into hypo conditions, the water changes will also start diluting out the water in your QT--diluting the organics that are in there once the fish is added.
I think your goal with this will be to prevent a major ammonia spike; you want to establish a QT that is already pretty much ready to go--or nearly ready. It would be a good idea to have hypo-ed water on hand for maybe a gal water change every 2 days.
Care will be needed when feeding the fish small meals that can be quickly all consumed. Remember, don't net the fish.
OK.....That is why we are going to re-aquascape...I DOUBT the fish will jump in my hand....LOL....
OK.....What is your opinion about ich transfer through pumps and such?????
I have never heard of it until Tangs brought it up
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Meow, it doesn't matter. You are going to treat the fish and the tank, and everything in the tank with hypo.
If you were setting up a new display tank, you certainly want to take all the precautions mentioned by others. If you wanted to initially set up a permanent QT that was basically sterile, then you could have done that. In this situation your fish is contaminated with ich, or very likely is. As soon as you add that fish to this QT, then it is highly suspect for ich, just as is everything else that came out of the other tank.
However, you are going to hypo the tank, killing the ich. This procedure will kill ich wherever it is in that tank.
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412075
Meow, it doesn't matter. You are going to treat the fish and the tank, and everything in the tank with hypo.
If you were setting up a new display tank, you certainly want to take all the precautions mentioned by others. If you wanted to initially set up a permanent QT that was basically sterile, then you could have done that. In this situation your fish is contaminated with ich, or very likely is. As soon as you add that fish to this QT, then it is highly suspect for ich, just as is everything else that came out of the other tank.
However, you are going to hypo the tank, killing the ich. This procedure will kill ich wherever it is in that tank.
She has multiple tanks - and her big one is currently clear.....Are you saying that a pump or a net used in a infested tank cannot transfer it over to another tank?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Wow, I'm amazed at my inability to get the message across on this issue. :%%:
She can actually use whichever pump she wants.
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412084
Wow, I'm amazed at my inability to get the message across on this issue.

She can actually use whichever pump she wants.
Beth I think the point that you are trying to get across is that it does not matter which pump she uses because she is going to be doing hypo on the tank to kill ( or break the ich cycle) so if she does this than it will not matter because there will be no Ich to transfer to another tank!!!
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member

Beth I think the point that you are trying to get across is that it does not matter which pump she uses because she is going to be doing hypo on the tank to kill ( or break the ich cycle) so if she does this than it will not matter because there will be no Ich to transfer to another tank!!!
 
 
Yes, that is it.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
LOL....OK....TANGS.....I use a different pump and stuff for the 225G anyway
I DO use the same pump and small tubing for all my small tanks though
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412084
Wow, I'm amazed at my inability to get the message across on this issue.

She can actually use whichever pump she wants.
Then by all means - use anything soaked in contaminated tank water in a parasite free tank. Just swap equipment back & forth from an infected tank to a clean one - hell I'm sure nothing bad can happen. I think I'll just tank a net of mine down to *****, swirl it around in one of their ich/velvet infested soups, bring it home and toss it into my 475 with 6 tangs......I'm sure nothing bad can happen from that.......

I am totally shocked by the lack of ability of some on this site to learn from others errors/mistakes.....If the OP decides to risk cross contamination and achieves to do it, My offer to loan her a 75g tank for qtine use stands - cause she's alot of fish in her 225g reef.
I guess not having roughly 25,000 posts relegates me to the "dunce corner", so since I've nothing to offer, I'll just sit here and read from others mistakes.
 
scott t

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412094
Then by all means - use anything soaked in contaminated tank water in a parasite free tank. Just swap equipment back & forth from an infected tank to a clean one - hell I'm sure nothing bad can happen. I think I'll just tank a net of mine down to *****, swirl it around in one of their ich/velvet infested soups, bring it home and toss it into my 475 with 6 tangs......I'm sure nothing bad can happen from that.......

I am totally shocked by the lack of ability of some on this site to learn from others errors/mistakes.....If the OP decides to risk cross contamination and achieves to do it, My offer to loan her a 75g tank for qtine use stands - cause she's alot of fish in her 225g reef.
I guess not having roughly 25,000 posts relegates me to the "dunce corner", so since I've nothing to offer, I'll just sit here and read from others mistakes.

I am sure that Beth's intentions were not by any means say that you did not know what you were talking about on the issue. She was just simply stating that if she chose to use a pump that had been used in a hypo'ed QT that the ich life cycle would either be killed or broken because ich can not sustain in a hypo'ed tank. No where did she state that the Op should not clean or disinfect equipment that was used in an infected tank. I understand that she has a lot of fish in the 225g tank and I myself would not risk such a thing either.. I have stuff that I use in my 29g QT that will never touch the water of my 75g DT, it is just not something that I would risk doing.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
I think you guys are talking about the same yet two different things. Beth is saying it doesn't matter which equipment you use on the QT since it's all going to be treated. And Tangs is simply saying be carefull that what ever you use in your QT, then not to use it on any of the other tanks to avoid contaminating the good tanks. So if you're using the same test kits for all your tanks then make sure you rise the test tubes or whatever you're using very carefully after it's been in the QT before you use it on any other tanks. This goes for all equipment, like glass scrappers...etc,etc. Or better yet, use separate equipment to avoid an accident.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/387603/do-not-do-as-meowzer-did/80#post_3412070
I think what you want to do to set up an emergency QT that doesn't require you to wait until a raw shrimp rots away in your tank before you use the tank.
If you add some rubble live rock (not much-a piece or two) and then feed that rock sparingly (1x a day) with your regular fish food for 3 days you will get better results. This actually produces a good marine biological filter that may not even result in ammonification in the tank. You can leave the rubble rock in the QT during hypo. With the sand, rubble rock and filters you will be good to go quick.
As you begin to bring the tank into hypo conditions, the water changes will also start diluting out the water in your QT--diluting the organics that are in there once the fish is added.
I think your goal with this will be to prevent a major ammonia spike; you want to establish a QT that is already pretty much ready to go--or nearly ready. It would be a good idea to have hypo-ed water on hand for maybe a gal water change every 2 days.
Care will be needed when feeding the fish small meals that can be quickly all consumed. Remember, don't net the fish.
We are talking emergency tank so
I am really confused now. Feeding once a day for three days is better than putting a piece of shrimp once in your tank. Perhaps it’s time to rewrite the books on starting the nitrogen cycle. The reason for the rubble rock is why? Does this rubble rock now mystery has bio filtration on it or is it going to somehow call the bacteria for nitrification to it.
You introduce a piece of raw shrimp which ROTS over a period of time BUT how is it better to introduce whatever you use to feed your fish once a day? Will these pieces SLOWLY GRASFULLY DEGRADE each piece starting from the beginning to degrade when you introduce it into your tank. Your biofiltraiion grows exponentially as you feed it. Let the continually ROTTING SHRIMP continue to feed your nitrifying bacteria. Once it is established remove it.
As far as you being good to go. You will be when you can handle ammonia and nitrites by biological or mechanical means.
I am still trying to understand the difference between a good marine biological filter and a bad marine bio filter
Quote:
Beth I think the point that you are trying to get across is that it does not matter which pump she uses because she is going to be doing hypo on the tank to kill ( or break the ich cycle) so if she does this than it will not matter because there will be no Ich to transfer to another tank!!!

Sorry but as a very average hobbyist I need to ask if I use a pump from one tank to another and in doing so once I stop the pump do I not syphon some water back from the pumped to the tank I am pumping. If we are talking about absolutes then using the same pump can cause cross contamination I believe
 
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