bigarn
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2524746
I agree. Therein lies the problem.
I couldn't agree more!
http:///forum/post/2524746
I agree. Therein lies the problem.
Obama's Church and ex-paster
- Thread starter beth
- Start date
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by bigarn
http:///forum/post/2524971
I couldn't agree more!
Obama isn't fighting for good race relations he is the product of it...
http:///forum/post/2524971
Obama isn't fighting for good race relations he is the product of it...
darthtang aw
Active Member
As I said it was a great a speech. It was the only "good" thing he could do to address the issue at hand. If he ignored it he would be seen as silently agreeing with the accusations. If he completely distanced himself he would drastically hurt his campaign base.
My only issue with what he said is this. He EXCUSED Rev Wrights speeches. That is where I have a problem. His excuse was race and social perception.
If this is the case we could excuse Hussein's massacre of the kurds, Osama Bin Ladens' attack against our civilians, and Hitler's hatred and genocide of the Jews. After all, these three people believed the afformentioned groups were a cause to their problems. I am not saying wright is as bad as the three mentioned in know way. I am just pointing out if we keep making excuses for someone's faulty, racist, and hatred views....where does it end? When as a nation do we we heal the racial issue. We never will.
My only issue with what he said is this. He EXCUSED Rev Wrights speeches. That is where I have a problem. His excuse was race and social perception.
If this is the case we could excuse Hussein's massacre of the kurds, Osama Bin Ladens' attack against our civilians, and Hitler's hatred and genocide of the Jews. After all, these three people believed the afformentioned groups were a cause to their problems. I am not saying wright is as bad as the three mentioned in know way. I am just pointing out if we keep making excuses for someone's faulty, racist, and hatred views....where does it end? When as a nation do we we heal the racial issue. We never will.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
The excuses just prove he's part of the cause, not part of the solution. You cant be both.
There was a kid who went to work with a company I worked with. He became my helper, pretty good kid, worked hard, did as he was instructed. But was VERY paranoid about racism. Possibly he had good cause, but I never saw any reason for it. One time while walking to break he was following behind me. We passed a guy in the hall and the guy gave me a little nod and said hi as we passed. When we got outside, the kid said, "Did you see that? That guys racist!" I asked how so, he replied that because he said hi to me, but not him he was racist. I told him that it had been over a year that I had been passing this guy in the hall from time to time and he only recently started saying hi to me. So.... was the kid was being racist by judging the fella as being racist? If the guy had been black and that happened there would have never been this issue. There were other things also. The kid eventually quit because he felt he was being persecuted. Honestly, I never saw it nor did I do anything but give him respect. He had to do his job, getting parts and pieces, doing the remedial work etc... But those were his duties assigned to anyone in his position.
This IMO is largely what the reverends church breeds. Haters, accusers and excusers. No-one wants to step up to bat and assume personal responsibility. For anything these days. Because racism is a personal thing, not a government body that commits it, we all need to except a little responsibility in order to snuff it out. Stop tolerating it around you, stop breeding it by having hate. Be responsible in your actions and the world will eventually see the end of racism. To say that we as a people commit crimes more so than those of other skin color, because we had worse teachers, lousy fathers, drug addict mothers etc. is just simply an excuse for not taking responsibility.
Obama wants to see a change, and he wants to be partly responsible for it. But wants to make excuses for those that are close to him who harbor it? Racism, and hate are wrong no matter who harbors it. Hate of America IMO is treason....Hating our government may not be such, but America and the American government in my opinion are 2 different things.
It's either elect him or racism prevails. Elect him and wipe out racism. Why cant it be that he gets elected or not based on his merit? Right now, I stand with Billary. But if she's not the candidate, I dont know where my vote will go. Probably to McCain, reluctantly.
There was a kid who went to work with a company I worked with. He became my helper, pretty good kid, worked hard, did as he was instructed. But was VERY paranoid about racism. Possibly he had good cause, but I never saw any reason for it. One time while walking to break he was following behind me. We passed a guy in the hall and the guy gave me a little nod and said hi as we passed. When we got outside, the kid said, "Did you see that? That guys racist!" I asked how so, he replied that because he said hi to me, but not him he was racist. I told him that it had been over a year that I had been passing this guy in the hall from time to time and he only recently started saying hi to me. So.... was the kid was being racist by judging the fella as being racist? If the guy had been black and that happened there would have never been this issue. There were other things also. The kid eventually quit because he felt he was being persecuted. Honestly, I never saw it nor did I do anything but give him respect. He had to do his job, getting parts and pieces, doing the remedial work etc... But those were his duties assigned to anyone in his position.
This IMO is largely what the reverends church breeds. Haters, accusers and excusers. No-one wants to step up to bat and assume personal responsibility. For anything these days. Because racism is a personal thing, not a government body that commits it, we all need to except a little responsibility in order to snuff it out. Stop tolerating it around you, stop breeding it by having hate. Be responsible in your actions and the world will eventually see the end of racism. To say that we as a people commit crimes more so than those of other skin color, because we had worse teachers, lousy fathers, drug addict mothers etc. is just simply an excuse for not taking responsibility.
Obama wants to see a change, and he wants to be partly responsible for it. But wants to make excuses for those that are close to him who harbor it? Racism, and hate are wrong no matter who harbors it. Hate of America IMO is treason....Hating our government may not be such, but America and the American government in my opinion are 2 different things.
It's either elect him or racism prevails. Elect him and wipe out racism. Why cant it be that he gets elected or not based on his merit? Right now, I stand with Billary. But if she's not the candidate, I dont know where my vote will go. Probably to McCain, reluctantly.
reefraff
Active Member
"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."
Barack Obama April 11 2007
"I cannot disown Pastor Wright"
Barack Obama March 19th 2008
White guy makes stupid racial comment and he must be fired.
Black guy makes stupid racial comments and gets appointed as advisor to Obama presidential campaign.
Exactly what are we changing from?
Barack Obama April 11 2007
"I cannot disown Pastor Wright"
Barack Obama March 19th 2008
White guy makes stupid racial comment and he must be fired.
Black guy makes stupid racial comments and gets appointed as advisor to Obama presidential campaign.
Exactly what are we changing from?
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2525709
The excuses just prove he's part of the cause, not part of the solution. You cant be both.
This IMO is largely what the reverends church breeds. Haters, accusers and excusers. No-one wants to step up to bat and assume personal responsibility. For anything these days. Because racism is a personal thing, not a government body that commits it, we all need to except a little responsibility in order to snuff it out. Stop tolerating it around you, stop breeding it by having hate. Be responsible in your actions and the world will eventually see the end of racism. To say that we as a people commit crimes more so than those of other skin color, because we had worse teachers, lousy fathers, drug addict mothers etc. is just simply an excuse for not taking responsibility.
Obama wants to see a change, and he wants to be partly responsible for it. But wants to make excuses for those that are close to him who harbor it? Racism, and hate are wrong no matter who harbors it. Hate of America IMO is treason....Hating our government may not be such, but America and the American government in my opinion are 2 different things.
This brings around an interesting point, one I tend to agree with. You are only a product of your surroundings, it isn't Rev. Wright's fault for who he is, or his grandmothers. So that absolves you from personal responsibility.
But lets take this argument a step further, if you are only a product of your environment, what would you say was Obama's church environment...
http:///forum/post/2525709
The excuses just prove he's part of the cause, not part of the solution. You cant be both.
This IMO is largely what the reverends church breeds. Haters, accusers and excusers. No-one wants to step up to bat and assume personal responsibility. For anything these days. Because racism is a personal thing, not a government body that commits it, we all need to except a little responsibility in order to snuff it out. Stop tolerating it around you, stop breeding it by having hate. Be responsible in your actions and the world will eventually see the end of racism. To say that we as a people commit crimes more so than those of other skin color, because we had worse teachers, lousy fathers, drug addict mothers etc. is just simply an excuse for not taking responsibility.
Obama wants to see a change, and he wants to be partly responsible for it. But wants to make excuses for those that are close to him who harbor it? Racism, and hate are wrong no matter who harbors it. Hate of America IMO is treason....Hating our government may not be such, but America and the American government in my opinion are 2 different things.
This brings around an interesting point, one I tend to agree with. You are only a product of your surroundings, it isn't Rev. Wright's fault for who he is, or his grandmothers. So that absolves you from personal responsibility.
But lets take this argument a step further, if you are only a product of your environment, what would you say was Obama's church environment...
Thanks, Ryan, for joining this topic and giving us your perspective; a perspective that many of us, perhaps, may not have thought of or considered. Your input has turned the discussion in the direction I was hoping for. And not the usual Right vs Left type topic.
This issue, which has come up because of Obama's real viability as a presidential contender, seems to me to have given us, as Americans, an opportunity. It’s difficult, very difficult, I think, because whites just do not want to shoulder "the blame" anymore. The blame for slavery, for KKK mentality and actions, for oppression, for wrongs done long ago. Most whites, I think, want to put all of that behind us, and go forward as "Americans" not African-Americans, or Anglo-Americans, or whatever-Americans, but just as Americans. However, when someone so prominent, and a man of God, seems to harbor so much bitterness, and incites a community to agree, it is very disheartening to many non-blacks. I think Obama’s perspective is correct in his most recent speech and response to these events, and speaking as a man who is both black and white he seems to be able to express the dividing issues, without inciting resentment.
I don’t know if I will vote for him, because I do tend to be more conservative. But I am saying I am impressed with the man. I would not like to see this issue ruin his opportunity in this election. More so, I hope that this issue does not escalate racial tensions in this country. I can only think that if such happened, it would be the exact opposite of everything Obama says he wishes.
This issue, which has come up because of Obama's real viability as a presidential contender, seems to me to have given us, as Americans, an opportunity. It’s difficult, very difficult, I think, because whites just do not want to shoulder "the blame" anymore. The blame for slavery, for KKK mentality and actions, for oppression, for wrongs done long ago. Most whites, I think, want to put all of that behind us, and go forward as "Americans" not African-Americans, or Anglo-Americans, or whatever-Americans, but just as Americans. However, when someone so prominent, and a man of God, seems to harbor so much bitterness, and incites a community to agree, it is very disheartening to many non-blacks. I think Obama’s perspective is correct in his most recent speech and response to these events, and speaking as a man who is both black and white he seems to be able to express the dividing issues, without inciting resentment.
I don’t know if I will vote for him, because I do tend to be more conservative. But I am saying I am impressed with the man. I would not like to see this issue ruin his opportunity in this election. More so, I hope that this issue does not escalate racial tensions in this country. I can only think that if such happened, it would be the exact opposite of everything Obama says he wishes.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Very well said Beth!
I never really got the whole "African-American" thing. I mean I understand it, I just don't get why there has to be a distinction. Especially when not all black people are from Africa. I mean should I then call myself "Welsh-American"? I understand how the term came to be, and am trying to be delicate here. While still engaging in an intelligent, productive conversation. The term, I find to be really confusing, as most who use that term defining themselves where born here, lived here all their lives and so did their parents before them and grandparents etc. Some with no ties to slavery, without a direct connection to Africa even. The only good term to me is black and white. I shy from using those terms though. Well not white, I don't have a problem calling myself white, but am always concerned about using the term black. My brother-in law cant decide if he's Latino, Hispanic, Spanish, or what. But he's definitely not Mexican. Even though his family came from Mexico.
I mean it's all really confusing.
Nobody knows what they should be called, let alone what to call anybody else. It's difficult to know, white and black are definite terms defining skin color, yet we refer to others as Asians and Hispanics.
I had a conversation with my nieces husband once, regarding this. I stated that what if there's a fella here from Cuba, his skin color is black. If I refer to him as being African American, then I am wrong in my presumption. Potentially risking offending him. Yet, how do I know. He stated that you don't know and should not try to label people. I agree with that definitely, but there are times when a person needs to make a distinction. How do you correctly do this? He's not African American, the word black might offend, Cuban-American would not be descriptive enough.
I guess what I'm saying is what do we do?
Obama's speech was very eloquent, but I feel as though it was mostly about white racism. I don't feel enough is being done about black, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, racism. It's present, we all feel it, some feel as though we should just bear it, to repay for what ever. I don't. I think it's all wrong and should stop. It offends me to see a group of people get together and practice it. Especially in a house of God. This is not to say I want or expect for the past to be just forgotten, I just don't want to be the subjected to racism, PERIOD.
You know there have been many times when I have said to a person of different ethnic background from myself, I do not see you any different from myself. Yet, I have never heard that back. I get "cool", "Yeah, I know" etc. but I personally have never heard that. I wonder why?
I never really got the whole "African-American" thing. I mean I understand it, I just don't get why there has to be a distinction. Especially when not all black people are from Africa. I mean should I then call myself "Welsh-American"? I understand how the term came to be, and am trying to be delicate here. While still engaging in an intelligent, productive conversation. The term, I find to be really confusing, as most who use that term defining themselves where born here, lived here all their lives and so did their parents before them and grandparents etc. Some with no ties to slavery, without a direct connection to Africa even. The only good term to me is black and white. I shy from using those terms though. Well not white, I don't have a problem calling myself white, but am always concerned about using the term black. My brother-in law cant decide if he's Latino, Hispanic, Spanish, or what. But he's definitely not Mexican. Even though his family came from Mexico.
I had a conversation with my nieces husband once, regarding this. I stated that what if there's a fella here from Cuba, his skin color is black. If I refer to him as being African American, then I am wrong in my presumption. Potentially risking offending him. Yet, how do I know. He stated that you don't know and should not try to label people. I agree with that definitely, but there are times when a person needs to make a distinction. How do you correctly do this? He's not African American, the word black might offend, Cuban-American would not be descriptive enough.
I guess what I'm saying is what do we do?
Obama's speech was very eloquent, but I feel as though it was mostly about white racism. I don't feel enough is being done about black, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, racism. It's present, we all feel it, some feel as though we should just bear it, to repay for what ever. I don't. I think it's all wrong and should stop. It offends me to see a group of people get together and practice it. Especially in a house of God. This is not to say I want or expect for the past to be just forgotten, I just don't want to be the subjected to racism, PERIOD.
You know there have been many times when I have said to a person of different ethnic background from myself, I do not see you any different from myself. Yet, I have never heard that back. I get "cool", "Yeah, I know" etc. but I personally have never heard that. I wonder why?
jmick
Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2526399
Obama's speech was very eloquent, but I feel as though it was mostly about white racism. I don't feel enough is being done about black, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, racism. It's present, we all feel it, some feel as though we should just bear it, to repay for what ever. I don't. I think it's all wrong and should stop. It offends me to see a group of people get together and practice it. Especially in a house of God. This is not to say I want or expect for the past to be just forgotten, I just don't want to be the subjected to racism, PERIOD.
You know there have been many times when I have said to a person of different ethnic background from myself, I do not see you any different from myself. Yet, I have never heard that back. I get "cool", "Yeah, I know" etc. but I personally have never heard that. I wonder why?
Please tell us about Black, Hispanic and Indian racism directed at other groups? I'm sorry, but white America is responsible for the VAST majority of the racism within our country and is guilty of the majority of the acts of violence against MINORITY groups. Racism/Hatred directed by a majority group against a minority has always been an issue throughout the world and unfortunately will always be present unless we fight it. I think our generation is taking great strides and we need to continue to do so and I hope one day we are all viewed as equal.
http:///forum/post/2526399
Obama's speech was very eloquent, but I feel as though it was mostly about white racism. I don't feel enough is being done about black, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, racism. It's present, we all feel it, some feel as though we should just bear it, to repay for what ever. I don't. I think it's all wrong and should stop. It offends me to see a group of people get together and practice it. Especially in a house of God. This is not to say I want or expect for the past to be just forgotten, I just don't want to be the subjected to racism, PERIOD.
You know there have been many times when I have said to a person of different ethnic background from myself, I do not see you any different from myself. Yet, I have never heard that back. I get "cool", "Yeah, I know" etc. but I personally have never heard that. I wonder why?
Please tell us about Black, Hispanic and Indian racism directed at other groups? I'm sorry, but white America is responsible for the VAST majority of the racism within our country and is guilty of the majority of the acts of violence against MINORITY groups. Racism/Hatred directed by a majority group against a minority has always been an issue throughout the world and unfortunately will always be present unless we fight it. I think our generation is taking great strides and we need to continue to do so and I hope one day we are all viewed as equal.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
I suppose your saying that minorities aren't racist? Your saying that I myself have not been targeted in a racist act?
I will tell you. I grew up in a predominetly hispanic neighborhood in Dallas. My best friend is hispanic. We walked those streets all hours of the day. 2 blocks down, 2 white kids were shot for doing the same. I knew who they were yet didnt know them personally. It was a tough neighborhood to be white in. In the 6th grade I was jumped by a bunch of hispanics walking home from school. They beat the S^&t out of me. My buddy ran, cant say I blame him. That whole year was hell. In Jr. High, I attended a science magnet, was bused across town into the projects. We got all kinds of things thrown at us, had the raod blocked at one time, were they shook the bus, beat it with sticks., threw rocks and busted out a couple windows. Bunch of white and hispanic kids in a bus going into a poor black neighborhood. Then there was the time I had a hispanic kid kick me in the nuts while setting on the bus, he was wearing Stacy Adams and it hurt like hell. When I was 19 I lived in an apartment complex where I was the only white person there. While talking on the phone at the booth downstairs, I had a guy walk up to me and stick a broken bottle to my side, his buddy yelled kill that white SOB when he asked for my money. I had $5 to give. Just prior to that, I was living in a garage apartment, I woke up one morning with a large rock being thrown through my door. They spray painted Honky on the hood of my truck. My cousin has had the crap beat out of him before just for driving through the wrong neighborhood. They blocked the road surounded the car, busted out the passenge rwindow, drug him out, beat the hell out of him and left him. He called 911 on his cell phone and took an ambulance ride. 6 staples in his head, 2 broke ribs, a broke ankle and nose.
I've seen my share thank you.
I will tell you. I grew up in a predominetly hispanic neighborhood in Dallas. My best friend is hispanic. We walked those streets all hours of the day. 2 blocks down, 2 white kids were shot for doing the same. I knew who they were yet didnt know them personally. It was a tough neighborhood to be white in. In the 6th grade I was jumped by a bunch of hispanics walking home from school. They beat the S^&t out of me. My buddy ran, cant say I blame him. That whole year was hell. In Jr. High, I attended a science magnet, was bused across town into the projects. We got all kinds of things thrown at us, had the raod blocked at one time, were they shook the bus, beat it with sticks., threw rocks and busted out a couple windows. Bunch of white and hispanic kids in a bus going into a poor black neighborhood. Then there was the time I had a hispanic kid kick me in the nuts while setting on the bus, he was wearing Stacy Adams and it hurt like hell. When I was 19 I lived in an apartment complex where I was the only white person there. While talking on the phone at the booth downstairs, I had a guy walk up to me and stick a broken bottle to my side, his buddy yelled kill that white SOB when he asked for my money. I had $5 to give. Just prior to that, I was living in a garage apartment, I woke up one morning with a large rock being thrown through my door. They spray painted Honky on the hood of my truck. My cousin has had the crap beat out of him before just for driving through the wrong neighborhood. They blocked the road surounded the car, busted out the passenge rwindow, drug him out, beat the hell out of him and left him. He called 911 on his cell phone and took an ambulance ride. 6 staples in his head, 2 broke ribs, a broke ankle and nose.
I've seen my share thank you.
scubadoo
Active Member
it seems Nobama has at least TWO more ties to haters and racist preachers. Meeks was mentioned on TV tonight...look for this to break tomorrow.
In the near future..Look for the name FAther Michael Pfleger....I did some investigating tonight and found this tie going back 15-20 years to current.
Remember...you heard the Pfleger heads-up here first.
I'm troubled now as it appears Nobama has multiple ties to haters and racists.
I am now even more troubled at the associations and judgement Nobama has displayed. It's not just one person now. I've posted additional inforamtion regarding Father Pfleger on the Obama supporters thread on the site. If you had issues with the Wright story.....You will also find this disturbing.
Look for both of these stories to break this week.
In the near future..Look for the name FAther Michael Pfleger....I did some investigating tonight and found this tie going back 15-20 years to current.
Remember...you heard the Pfleger heads-up here first.
I'm troubled now as it appears Nobama has multiple ties to haters and racists.
I am now even more troubled at the associations and judgement Nobama has displayed. It's not just one person now. I've posted additional inforamtion regarding Father Pfleger on the Obama supporters thread on the site. If you had issues with the Wright story.....You will also find this disturbing.
Look for both of these stories to break this week.
lexluethar
Active Member
I do agree, it is crazy to say there is not racism of minorities to the majority. I've been discriminated against too as a white middle class american. I've seen both sides of it. Growing up my mother and I weren't well off. We lived in northern St. Louis and we lived in bad part of the city. Not saying it was the projects, but it wasn't a good area (lots of poverty and crime). In my apartment complex the majority of the residents were black, and growing up this was around 3-5th grade most of my friends were black. In fact my closest friends were black. Although my friends didn't discriminate against me, i knew some other people did. I wasn't allowed in a few of their homes because their mothers didn't like the idea of a white kid hanging out with their kids. I remember on several occasions being in my friends house playing nintendo and my friend saying I had to leave because his mother was about to come home. I asked why it mattered and he said because she 'wouldn't approve'. Am i bitter, no, was i bitter at the time, no. Seriously i was't, i was just glad that i got to hang out with my friend.
Although on a larger scale - racism happens more from majority to minority, but that doesn't always mean white to black, or white to hispanic, etc. It means in that area, like the above poster, he WAS the minority and he was discriminated against, and in my case the same. Although i realize that there isn't a history of slavery or large hate movements.
I agree, i mean nothing will change unless we choose to do something about it. Sadly though i don't think anything will change within our lifetime, if ever.
So is it racist in Japan and France to discriminate on the lower class citizens? I was just thinking about that, in those countries there are distinct classes of citizens and it is accepted to discriminate against those classes. In Japan they are having issues with their service industry because people won't apply for the service positions, because of the possibility of servicing lower class citizens. My point being that even if we get rid of racism, it is and will be perdominent in other cultures (not saying its right).
Although on a larger scale - racism happens more from majority to minority, but that doesn't always mean white to black, or white to hispanic, etc. It means in that area, like the above poster, he WAS the minority and he was discriminated against, and in my case the same. Although i realize that there isn't a history of slavery or large hate movements.
I agree, i mean nothing will change unless we choose to do something about it. Sadly though i don't think anything will change within our lifetime, if ever.
So is it racist in Japan and France to discriminate on the lower class citizens? I was just thinking about that, in those countries there are distinct classes of citizens and it is accepted to discriminate against those classes. In Japan they are having issues with their service industry because people won't apply for the service positions, because of the possibility of servicing lower class citizens. My point being that even if we get rid of racism, it is and will be perdominent in other cultures (not saying its right).
V
veeraj87
Guest
Originally Posted by alexmir
http:///forum/post/2519154
I can understand that a black american might have a different opinion on the history of america, I can also imagine that native americans would have a very different look on America as a white american also, but because they are a minority (around 2 % i think) they dont seem to have as much of a fight as blacks do. I do know that when people say " White " they are often referring to everyone who is not middle eastern, black, or hispanic. There are lots and lots of ethnicities that make up " White America " and the ancestors of every one of those ethnic groups suffered hatred and wrong doing from another group of people.
I agree with everyone else that slavery was absolutely disgusting, But I dont understand why that would change the opinion of america to a black person. As a pentecostal, (a very modest one, not a back woods snake charmer!!!! haha) many of the older people in my church were beaten, hated, scared out of schools because of their religion, but that doesnt give me a right to have a bad outlook on America. Of course there are idiots that hate black people, but there are idiots that hate asian, south american, mexican, irish and all other kinds of people.
I also feel that if you go to a church, (where you and your congregation share similar beliefs) and hear a man that you look up to (His pastor) scream hatred toward White America and towards America in general, You are very affected by that. And if he says he doesnt agree with his pastor on that subject, then why go for 20 years? You find a church that the pastor and congregation have similar beliefs in God and Life as you, which shows that he may deep down feel the same way. I think Obama would be a really cool guy to hang out with, but it scares me that A man that has been told to hate white America for 20 years is about to be elected president. You can not sit through a chruch appox. 700 church services ( 35 services a year for 20 years) and not be extremely influenced by a man.
Anyways, just my opinion. Hope this didnt offend anyone, i was certainly not trying to. I just have a very strong opinoin about this subject.
(I also have very strong opinions about the other runners, but this thread is about Obama, i am not trying to single him out)
In my opinion people do have a tainted image of America, and all this is not helping, neither is our war in Iraq. I know there are a ton of conservatives on this page that will beg to differ, but the outward appearance of teh United States of America is terrible, we have killed out own share of innocent people, its like telling people to forget the holocaust, dude people DIED, nobodys just going to forget that, the media over here totally makes our woes look so bad and so hurtful, think of a third world country like iraq who has ECONOMIC SANCTIONS placed against them, they cant get clean water in the cities, and do you think our military or country gives a crap about all those kids that can get clean water and die of diarrhea. No because americans are known to be pompous people, who only think inwardly, what about subsidizing out corn and selling it to mexico and making it cost less than the corn grown in their own town. im not even lieing but its sad and its wrong, to why do these people feel this way, they have a right to feel it, we continue doing dumb things abroad not solving the problem, WHERE IS OSAMA? i havent heard a thing about him. Obama is the closest real thing to the change this country really needs, hes been more honest with his stuff than Hillary, i have a friend that works for her and she is known to play dirty, and lets face it if the Repubs win we got more war, and unless you want to be paying more for gas and other products, hope ur making alot of money. but more then obama, i gotta stand up for the African American history its because of comments like that, that hush hush what has happened, you think we keep 911 hush hush NO?
http:///forum/post/2519154
I can understand that a black american might have a different opinion on the history of america, I can also imagine that native americans would have a very different look on America as a white american also, but because they are a minority (around 2 % i think) they dont seem to have as much of a fight as blacks do. I do know that when people say " White " they are often referring to everyone who is not middle eastern, black, or hispanic. There are lots and lots of ethnicities that make up " White America " and the ancestors of every one of those ethnic groups suffered hatred and wrong doing from another group of people.
I agree with everyone else that slavery was absolutely disgusting, But I dont understand why that would change the opinion of america to a black person. As a pentecostal, (a very modest one, not a back woods snake charmer!!!! haha) many of the older people in my church were beaten, hated, scared out of schools because of their religion, but that doesnt give me a right to have a bad outlook on America. Of course there are idiots that hate black people, but there are idiots that hate asian, south american, mexican, irish and all other kinds of people.
I also feel that if you go to a church, (where you and your congregation share similar beliefs) and hear a man that you look up to (His pastor) scream hatred toward White America and towards America in general, You are very affected by that. And if he says he doesnt agree with his pastor on that subject, then why go for 20 years? You find a church that the pastor and congregation have similar beliefs in God and Life as you, which shows that he may deep down feel the same way. I think Obama would be a really cool guy to hang out with, but it scares me that A man that has been told to hate white America for 20 years is about to be elected president. You can not sit through a chruch appox. 700 church services ( 35 services a year for 20 years) and not be extremely influenced by a man.
Anyways, just my opinion. Hope this didnt offend anyone, i was certainly not trying to. I just have a very strong opinoin about this subject.
(I also have very strong opinions about the other runners, but this thread is about Obama, i am not trying to single him out)
In my opinion people do have a tainted image of America, and all this is not helping, neither is our war in Iraq. I know there are a ton of conservatives on this page that will beg to differ, but the outward appearance of teh United States of America is terrible, we have killed out own share of innocent people, its like telling people to forget the holocaust, dude people DIED, nobodys just going to forget that, the media over here totally makes our woes look so bad and so hurtful, think of a third world country like iraq who has ECONOMIC SANCTIONS placed against them, they cant get clean water in the cities, and do you think our military or country gives a crap about all those kids that can get clean water and die of diarrhea. No because americans are known to be pompous people, who only think inwardly, what about subsidizing out corn and selling it to mexico and making it cost less than the corn grown in their own town. im not even lieing but its sad and its wrong, to why do these people feel this way, they have a right to feel it, we continue doing dumb things abroad not solving the problem, WHERE IS OSAMA? i havent heard a thing about him. Obama is the closest real thing to the change this country really needs, hes been more honest with his stuff than Hillary, i have a friend that works for her and she is known to play dirty, and lets face it if the Repubs win we got more war, and unless you want to be paying more for gas and other products, hope ur making alot of money. but more then obama, i gotta stand up for the African American history its because of comments like that, that hush hush what has happened, you think we keep 911 hush hush NO?
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2526425
Please tell us about Black, Hispanic and Indian racism directed at other groups? I'm sorry, but white America is responsible for the VAST majority of the racism within our country and is guilty of the majority of the acts of violence against MINORITY groups. Racism/Hatred directed by a majority group against a minority has always been an issue throughout the world and unfortunately will always be present unless we fight it. I think our generation is taking great strides and we need to continue to do so and I hope one day we are all viewed as equal.
I must call BS
I grew up in SoCal and was the victim of and saw others victimized by black on white and Hispanic on white, Asian on white etc. racism on many, many , many occasions.
A few people I knew in Montana grew up on the Flathead reservation. No Indian on white racism? Are you on crack!!!
Hell I was on the reservation quite a bit for work and while most were really nice I caught crap for no reason on a few occasions. Know anyone from Hawaii? Ask them about kill haole day in the public schools there.
Racism is a two way street. Until people quit trying to blame whitey for all their problems racism isn't going away.
http:///forum/post/2526425
Please tell us about Black, Hispanic and Indian racism directed at other groups? I'm sorry, but white America is responsible for the VAST majority of the racism within our country and is guilty of the majority of the acts of violence against MINORITY groups. Racism/Hatred directed by a majority group against a minority has always been an issue throughout the world and unfortunately will always be present unless we fight it. I think our generation is taking great strides and we need to continue to do so and I hope one day we are all viewed as equal.
I must call BS
I grew up in SoCal and was the victim of and saw others victimized by black on white and Hispanic on white, Asian on white etc. racism on many, many , many occasions.
A few people I knew in Montana grew up on the Flathead reservation. No Indian on white racism? Are you on crack!!!
Racism is a two way street. Until people quit trying to blame whitey for all their problems racism isn't going away.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2526514
In my opinion people do have a tainted image of America, and all this is not helping, neither is our war in Iraq. I know there are a ton of conservatives on this page that will beg to differ, but the outward appearance of teh United States of America is terrible, we have killed out own share of innocent people, its like telling people to forget the holocaust, dude people DIED, nobodys just going to forget that, the media over here totally makes our woes look so bad and so hurtful, think of a third world country like iraq who has ECONOMIC SANCTIONS placed against them, they cant get clean water in the cities, and do you think our military or country gives a crap about all those kids that can get clean water and die of diarrhea. No because americans are known to be pompous people, who only think inwardly, what about subsidizing out corn and selling it to mexico and making it cost less than the corn grown in their own town. im not even lieing but its sad and its wrong, to why do these people feel this way, they have a right to feel it, we continue doing dumb things abroad not solving the problem, WHERE IS OSAMA? i havent heard a thing about him. Obama is the closest real thing to the change this country really needs, hes been more honest with his stuff than Hillary, i have a friend that works for her and she is known to play dirty, and lets face it if the Repubs win we got more war, and unless you want to be paying more for gas and other products, hope ur making alot of money. but more then obama, i gotta stand up for the African American history its because of comments like that, that hush hush what has happened, you think we keep 911 hush hush NO?
I think you make too many assumptions.
Obama has been shown to be the same old thing with a new marketing compaign. He demonizes maytag for moving jobs out of the country while hanging with one of his largest campaign doner's who's family just happens to be the largest private shareholders of Maytag stock. Rezko sound familiar? I mean if you agree with Obamas record (no laws against anything to do with abortion, gun bans, increased foriegn aid, socialized medicine, increased taxes etc.) that all well and fine. Just don't buy into or try to sell the whole change thing cause it isn't legitimate.
The one "political" figure I see with the clout to really make a change can't run for president because he isn't a citizen. I am talking about the guy who can be friendly with Rumsfeld and work with him to get something done, can be friendly with Hillary and Teddy and get something done, can be friendly with Bush and Cheney and get something done. I just wonder how many people here know who I am talking about.
http:///forum/post/2526514
In my opinion people do have a tainted image of America, and all this is not helping, neither is our war in Iraq. I know there are a ton of conservatives on this page that will beg to differ, but the outward appearance of teh United States of America is terrible, we have killed out own share of innocent people, its like telling people to forget the holocaust, dude people DIED, nobodys just going to forget that, the media over here totally makes our woes look so bad and so hurtful, think of a third world country like iraq who has ECONOMIC SANCTIONS placed against them, they cant get clean water in the cities, and do you think our military or country gives a crap about all those kids that can get clean water and die of diarrhea. No because americans are known to be pompous people, who only think inwardly, what about subsidizing out corn and selling it to mexico and making it cost less than the corn grown in their own town. im not even lieing but its sad and its wrong, to why do these people feel this way, they have a right to feel it, we continue doing dumb things abroad not solving the problem, WHERE IS OSAMA? i havent heard a thing about him. Obama is the closest real thing to the change this country really needs, hes been more honest with his stuff than Hillary, i have a friend that works for her and she is known to play dirty, and lets face it if the Repubs win we got more war, and unless you want to be paying more for gas and other products, hope ur making alot of money. but more then obama, i gotta stand up for the African American history its because of comments like that, that hush hush what has happened, you think we keep 911 hush hush NO?
I think you make too many assumptions.
Obama has been shown to be the same old thing with a new marketing compaign. He demonizes maytag for moving jobs out of the country while hanging with one of his largest campaign doner's who's family just happens to be the largest private shareholders of Maytag stock. Rezko sound familiar? I mean if you agree with Obamas record (no laws against anything to do with abortion, gun bans, increased foriegn aid, socialized medicine, increased taxes etc.) that all well and fine. Just don't buy into or try to sell the whole change thing cause it isn't legitimate.
The one "political" figure I see with the clout to really make a change can't run for president because he isn't a citizen. I am talking about the guy who can be friendly with Rumsfeld and work with him to get something done, can be friendly with Hillary and Teddy and get something done, can be friendly with Bush and Cheney and get something done. I just wonder how many people here know who I am talking about.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by Jmick
http:///forum/post/2526425
Please tell us about Black, Hispanic and Indian racism directed at other groups? I'm sorry, but white America is responsible for the VAST majority of the racism within our country and is guilty of the majority of the acts of violence against MINORITY groups. Racism/Hatred directed by a majority group against a minority has always been an issue throughout the world and unfortunately will always be present unless we fight it. I think our generation is taking great strides and we need to continue to do so and I hope one day we are all viewed as equal.
For racism from black leaders directed at whites and jews......please see tapes and comments from FArrakahn, Sharpton, Jackson, and Wright
Racism is wrong...majority on minority and minority on majority. It should all be denounced and not excused away..and that is what Nobama did...excuse it away.
http:///forum/post/2526425
Please tell us about Black, Hispanic and Indian racism directed at other groups? I'm sorry, but white America is responsible for the VAST majority of the racism within our country and is guilty of the majority of the acts of violence against MINORITY groups. Racism/Hatred directed by a majority group against a minority has always been an issue throughout the world and unfortunately will always be present unless we fight it. I think our generation is taking great strides and we need to continue to do so and I hope one day we are all viewed as equal.
For racism from black leaders directed at whites and jews......please see tapes and comments from FArrakahn, Sharpton, Jackson, and Wright
Racism is wrong...majority on minority and minority on majority. It should all be denounced and not excused away..and that is what Nobama did...excuse it away.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Veeraj87
http:///forum/post/2526514
In my opinion people do have a tainted image of America, and all this is not helping, neither is our war in Iraq. I know there are a ton of conservatives on this page that will beg to differ, but the outward appearance of teh United States of America is terrible, we have killed out own share of innocent people, its like telling people to forget the holocaust, dude people DIED, nobodys just going to forget that, the media over here totally makes our woes look so bad and so hurtful, think of a third world country like iraq who has ECONOMIC SANCTIONS placed against them, they cant get clean water in the cities, and do you think our military or country gives a crap about all those kids that can get clean water and die of diarrhea. No because americans are known to be pompous people, who only think inwardly, what about subsidizing out corn and selling it to mexico and making it cost less than the corn grown in their own town. im not even lieing but its sad and its wrong, to why do these people feel this way, they have a right to feel it, we continue doing dumb things abroad not solving the problem, WHERE IS OSAMA? i havent heard a thing about him. Obama is the closest real thing to the change this country really needs, hes been more honest with his stuff than Hillary, i have a friend that works for her and she is known to play dirty, and lets face it if the Repubs win we got more war, and unless you want to be paying more for gas and other products, hope ur making alot of money. but more then obama, i gotta stand up for the African American history its because of comments like that, that hush hush what has happened, you think we keep 911 hush hush NO?
wow compairing rebuilding a nation, to the systematic elimination of a people group. Now that makes sense.
http:///forum/post/2526514
In my opinion people do have a tainted image of America, and all this is not helping, neither is our war in Iraq. I know there are a ton of conservatives on this page that will beg to differ, but the outward appearance of teh United States of America is terrible, we have killed out own share of innocent people, its like telling people to forget the holocaust, dude people DIED, nobodys just going to forget that, the media over here totally makes our woes look so bad and so hurtful, think of a third world country like iraq who has ECONOMIC SANCTIONS placed against them, they cant get clean water in the cities, and do you think our military or country gives a crap about all those kids that can get clean water and die of diarrhea. No because americans are known to be pompous people, who only think inwardly, what about subsidizing out corn and selling it to mexico and making it cost less than the corn grown in their own town. im not even lieing but its sad and its wrong, to why do these people feel this way, they have a right to feel it, we continue doing dumb things abroad not solving the problem, WHERE IS OSAMA? i havent heard a thing about him. Obama is the closest real thing to the change this country really needs, hes been more honest with his stuff than Hillary, i have a friend that works for her and she is known to play dirty, and lets face it if the Repubs win we got more war, and unless you want to be paying more for gas and other products, hope ur making alot of money. but more then obama, i gotta stand up for the African American history its because of comments like that, that hush hush what has happened, you think we keep 911 hush hush NO?
wow compairing rebuilding a nation, to the systematic elimination of a people group. Now that makes sense.